SonicGDK 1.30.000

Once the engine is released open source for anybody to mess with, anyone can add or change anything they want

 

It will be only a matter of time before it becomes the next Blitz3D filled with awful fan characters, shitty music, and replacing classic Sonic with radioactive porcupine man.

 

With the only difference that Blitz sucks and SonicUDK not

 

Fooled around with this a bit more. A complaint: The game doesn't seem to disable the mouse, so when it inevitably drifts off to the sides and I click, the game takes me back to the desktop. This might have something to do with me using a custom shell (bblean), but it'd be a huge hassle if I had to disable it every time I wanted to play this. I was never able to get the game to work windowed either, still need to manually set the game to fullscreen to even see anything. Anything to be done about any of this?

A suggestion:



I want this to be possible, but the camera immediately reverting to its default orientation when jumping from an incline really quashes that idea- it's particularly disorienting when you're upside down. Only solution for this is to have the game preserve the camera's orientation after a jump, and perhaps you could have it smoothly roll back into place before the player lands?* I don't think the physics would actually allow for this specific example without also preserving the player's trajectory and momentum, but just being able to aim a jump from an incline is what really matters. This is going to be absolutely crucial for complex platforming!

EDIT: Come to think of it, it'd be awesome if you could jump from one wall to another without falling.

*EDIT2: Better plan- instead of automating the camera, just freeze it as-is and give the player complete manual control over all axes a la Descent, reorient upon touching a surface. Or do the smooth roll thing a few feet above the target surface for cosmetic effect, I guess. Bonus points if you can aim the air dash along the y-axis.

 

Looks like my videocard sucks

 

Thing is, there isn't a single instance in this test map where jumping from an incline is expected of the player, let alone beneficial. I guess I'm just 9,991 plays short of getting the hang of it, but jumping from an incline never seems to work out as planned. Say I want to jump from the bottom lip of the mobius strip onto the rotating bridge; it's entirely possible, and I was able to pull it off once, but that 180º camera flip completely negates any notion of aiming my jump and it all boils down to chance. I'd be able to do it consistently if the camera would just stay put so I could manually guide Sonic into position with the mouse like a flight simulator. Also, jumping at or after the apex of a loop forces the camera to face the loop, so you're effectively looking behind you instead of the direction you were just heading. Inconvenient!

Come to think of it, jumping in any situation just seems to stymie all inertia- in any case, it isn't behaving the way it should with downward slopes, you never gain any speed or distance. Is that something you've already taken into consideration? I don't know what's left on your itinerary before you're ready to call it quits, but I'd think this is the last hurdle keeping this from being the perfect representation of Sonic in 3D, ergonomic polish notwithstanding. Jumping in general feels stiff, but I can't really gauge how effective 3D platforming would be in this engine when the test level seems to be deliberately avoiding it (only necessary for the rotating bridge and the bumpers, even!), so I'd definitely like to see more of that.

Also, just noticed the extreme gibbing when Sonic gets crushed. I tittered.

 

Well, though I can't access the internet properly, I can't try preview 4. However, I can test stuff with Preview 3. At this, I pulled VirtualBox out and tweaked it for testing. I fortunately have the DX9 redists, so simple.

Stats for the system
OS Windows XP sp3
RAM 2048mb (2gb)
Processor 2 Cores shared from main PC's 2.8Ghz Quadcore
VT-x/AMD-V On

Video Mem 64mb
3D and 2D video Accel On

Results
Unfortunately, my luck was for not. Even after UE3 redists were installed, the game refused to boot. It might be my methods, but I'll get to a networked computer and download preview 4 tomorrow and bring my results for it. Keep watch.

 

Fans are going to be fans and no amount of bitching is going to stop that. We were all 13 once, and I'd wager most of us did things when we were 13 that we now regret. It's part of growing up. I've seen other people in this community actively try and prevent that sort of thing from happening, but the truth of the matter is, they'll just find another way. You can't learn what's good until you know what's bad, and when you're a little kid you're only just starting to develop that sense.

Some kid making awful fan characters for BlitzSonic today could turn out to be the next John Carmack in 10 years. And if he doesn't, who cares? The point is he's taken the initiative to learn how to do that sort of stuff, and that in itself is a worthy pursuit.

I'm over it.

 

I think the game bundle is missing a DLL for Windows XP users(I tested this on a fresh install of XP, Windows 7 didn't seem to have a problem after updating DirectX). I know you can't really do much about it, but I'm posting this to help Windows XP users who are having trouble running the game.

After I installed the latest version of DirectX on XP(I also tried to install earlier versions [Feb 2010, Crysis directX, etc.]) - the game still wouldn't boot - it gave a long error message like 0xc0000032. I got it to work by copying a DLL that's included in the official Unreal UDK folder. The DLL is in UDK > Binaries > Win32 > Microsoft.V90.CRT > msvcm90.dll - I copied the DLL to the same directory in SonicGDK and the game magically started working. Hope this helps.


Now some suggestions for the engine:
First off it already feels like it's a good modern sonic game, the default acceleration is great and the shields are perfect. There's just a few core things I suggest:

Main things:


1) The camera should have an option to reposition according to the direction the player is going when moving normally. Turning around in the current version is difficult and involves using the mouse or touching a speed pad - Since most games usually take care of the camera for the player - an auto adjusting camera with free panning should probably be an option.

2) When the character falls, his horizontal momentum gets cut a lot, having a less of a "weight" feel would help gameplay immensely.

Other stuff:

3) The Jump Dash move should add to your momentum - not infinitely, but just enough so if you double jump you don't lose speed - like how the flame shield works - just not as powerful.

4) The player falls a bit too quickly from his a jump when holding down the jump button during the descent, the jump should have a slightly slower fall.

5) Vertical springs should not reset your horizontal momentum - Preservation of momentum is really important in physics based sonic games, springs probably should reset horizontal momentum only when the player does a homing attack on the spring or isn't going very fast.

6) Quick step should have a wider effect - you should move about 2.5x as much as you do now using it and the camera should loosen up for half a second so the player isn't completely centered while using quickstep, after half a second, the camera should adjust back to normal

 

Those are all great suggestions, but here's one I'm definitely throwing my weight behind, it's something I've been thinking about a lot. SRB2 does this and it's an absolute blast. Really, it's been too tempting to just say "Make the whole fucking game control like SRB2", I've just been holding out under the assumption something like that would be really irritating to hear for any number of reasons. It's more something for a third party to throw together once the source is out. The springs wouldn't hurt though, right?

 

In response to SonicGDK should play like SRB2:

Just played a few levels of SRB2, the core controls are very nice & fine tuned.

There are lots of things SRB2 does very well - things like analog control, the camera system, Tails' & Knuckles' abilities - if that's what you meant by SonicGDK controlling like SRB2, I agree.

If you meant for SonicGDK to control like SRB2 by having SRB2's acceleration, default speed, etc. I would say:

+SRB2 is a solid platformer, but it compensates for the lack of rich geometry based momentum by giving the player high default acceleration and high default speed. Because momentum isn't really a core part of SRB2's gameplay, many levels have large areas for the player to zoom through, and since there's no other way to gain horizontal momentum, the character runs fast by default.
-You wouldn't want that in SonicGDK because here Sonic runs at medium speed by default and goes faster from momentum gained by rolling/running down slopes - if you had him run as fast as SRB2 does by default - the concept of finding momentum to overcome an obstacle wouldn't be as strong - and the momentum concept in this engine would be a core part of what makes it special.


But generally, I agree, SRB2 is a great model for how other 3D Sonic games should behave.

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Now, even if this might be obvious to some or has been stated already, I'll explain this anyway:
This is what I see in this project, and why I feel SonicGDK a major thing:

The thing that makes SonicGDK special:

As a general rule of recent Sonic games(official / fan-made), the good Sonic games are platformers, except fast & with flow: Jump platform to platform, speed through an open space, jump over obstacles - like any good sonic game - you move fluidly through the environments, there's puzzles of how to get from point A to B.

I think levels other people design with SonicGDK will share those core motives of platforming & flow as well, but the main thing that differentiates the majority 3D Sonic games from SonicGDK is: SonicGDK has the typical 3D platforming elements but also has geometry based physics. This makes SonicGDK different than BlitzSonic because more essential gameplay elements are being included by default, and the core of SonicGDK is more easily extensible and open by nature(because of UDK and it's modding capabilities.)

The gap between classic 2D Sonic and modern 3D Sonic:
A big chunk of 2D Sonic was the geometry based physics: rolling down a curve to gain momentum to go up, the speed of rolling into to a ball when you hit the ground at an angle - and never seeming to have a max speed limit - The physics were what MADE those classic Sonic games.

When Sonic went to 3D - the style of physics gradually changed - Sonic Adventure DX/Battle 2 for example, still had lots of slope and incline-based speed - so the fun of gaining momentum wasn't completely lost, but in comparison to classic 2D sonic - the physics based part of Sonic was toned down a little in the transition to 3D.

Now, modern Sonic games like Sonic Colors or Sonic Unleashed use a boost button as their only sense of momentum - there's no real slopes anymore and modern 3D sonic games feel like high speed platformers mixed with a racing game with drifting and jumping. The original thing that used to make a Sonic - physics + momentum - is gone in recent 3D Sonic games.

Now the epic thing about SonicGDK:

The cool thing about SonicGDK IS the physics + momentum - you could essentially recreate Sonic 2 WITHOUT pre-made scripts - with the current SonicGDK beta, I can jump mid way through the small loop in the 2D section and crouch to roll to gain momentum like I could in 2D sonic - Sonic Unleased & Colors couldn't make a 3D version of Sonic 2 that plays like the original with their engines - but Sonic GDK can. This is what I'm excited about - SonicGDK will have the capability to behave like almost any Sonic game when the source code is released - A person could pickup the source code and make a SonicUnleashed/Colors style game, or with some coding you could recreate Sonic Adventure, OR you could even remake a classic 2D Sonic game with this engine.

Level designers are going to want to stretch and deform the landscape to make the landscape itself the obstacle - with Sonic's momentum and inertia being the key to overcoming the landscape - Something official 3D Sonic games don't have. This will immensely differentiate Sonic GDK between other Sonic 3D games:

Classic platforming elements and puzzle solving can easily be harmoniously integrated with these new 3D physics. The way SonicGDK is setup makes level designing super flexible - you can imitate previous Sonic game designs, AND you can experiment with a new physics-based 3D world - The Unreal 3 engine can create massive levels, supports advanced scripting, source code modders have the option to create network play, - even the graphics quality has the option of being cutting edge.

The potential this project has is astounding.

 

Vertical momentum is. Rewarding skilled play with this sort of free-flowing aerial maneuverability is a key component of the whole experience, and it's still true to the physics of the original trilogy, though you hardly ever got the chance to exploit it there. The accelerated strafing is of particular importance when it allows for precision targeting and arcing around corners. SonicGDK needs this. I totally agree that the high default acceleration isn't necessary here, but everything else is pretty much perfect.

Also, this whole mess has rekindled my interest in 3D modelling and I've already learned about three times as much as I used to know. I'm gonna tear the frame on this pussy.

 

Okay. THIS got me excited.

I've played with the thought while checking out this project, but this could really get 3D fangames up to par with some of the fantastic 2D ones, should someone put the effort in. I can't wait to see what comes out of this.

 

If someone went the distance of completely recreating Sonic Adventure with the GDK when it's released, I would shit everywhere. It would be glorious. A man can dream.

 

It looks very good and feels quite right, but I also felt like the good physics were getting a bit lost among a few control and camera issues. It's hard to just easily try things out, as it is.

Also, underwater jumping deadly slow to fall back down? Or is this just after pressing F7?

 

Call me a crazy nutjob, but I'd love to see someone at least recreate the Sonic 06 demo level (Kingdom Valley act 1) :v: Hell, people here probably think it would be a waste of time but with this we have the opportunity to remake Sonic 06 into a good game. (of course disregarding the nonsensical plot)

 

And put in some features that weren't in the final release, like, I dunno, a day/night cycle, which is surprisingly easy to do in UDK.

 

Most of the issues Sonic 06 had gameplay-wise were physics and collision related, obviously the collision in SonicGDK is fine, SonicGDK also has a strong physics engine for characters, and you also have UE3's PhysX implementation for object physics, UE3 also does vehicles pretty well.

With that in mind it should be possible to get Sonic's, Shadow's and Silver's levels working pretty well in this engine.

The only missing thing is a grinding system which makes me wonder Xaklse, are you going to implement one somewhere down the line or will you leave it to other developers to do when you release the engine?