Sonic Superstars: A New 2D Sonic Game (Fall 2023)

As long as you're not hearing it from here of course.

 

Honestly, even the general response here has been positive, save from initial and musical skepticism, which is more than understandable.

 

Battle mode sounds neat I guess though do they mean SA2B-style battle or Sonic Battle-style battle? If it's Battle-battle then I think they could at least also give us online leaderboards with ghosts or something for the main levels.

 

The initial skepticism was warranted considering Sonic Team's track record with Sonic physics and the placeholder music, but that does not seem to be a major concern anymore. A lot of people who played it seem happy with the physics and they hired people who worked on Sonic Mania for the soundtrack. I have full optimism and confidence with this product. ^_^

 

You could've used a track that was actually bad.

 

It's definitely not his best work.

It's annoying because in the 1990s SEGA were not like this at all. They were pushing Sonic music with as much modern technology as they could in their remix albums. They didn't use poor quality synths which were designed to sound ancient:



They are not even close to doing Classic Sonic music in this style anymore which is a great shame.

 

but see like, in other topics we were even discussing how people felt that Mania was too long soooo

 

Huh?

I'm not sure how you could interpret this to be anything other than your standard versus mode. They're not going to sneak in a fighting game.

 

I think the problem is as others have stated is that the original OSTs weren't meant to sound retro, they were trying to be as popy and jazzy as the hardware permitted. Tbh I don't know why they don't get someone who knows their way around a tracker if they reaaaally wanted to go the chiptune route.

 

The gameplay footage so far has really focused my initial excitement for this game and what im still wondering about is the level variety and how interaction between players looks like in co-op mode. Super Mario 3D Land gave you as the players the opportunity to either help or stifle your fellow players' progress within the moveset. I wonder whether anything like that exists in Superstars.

 

There's merit in trying to give the series one specific, distinct style, but yeah, that's not it. As a matter of fact, I just rediscovered how Saturn's 3D Blast OST could be insane, especially for the time, and it has more or less always been a signature of the series to keep up with the latest trends, isn't it? So it seems almost counterintuitive to restrict yourself to synths made to sound retro.

 

Yeah these are pretty damn good I'll admit, maybe he needed better context to stretch his legs other than "candy land."

 

I think Sonic fans would be happier as people if they would stop unironically being upset over decades-old games. It really is not that big of a deal. If you genuinely feel worse emotionally because of Sonic 4, that's a choice you are making.

And also agree that Sega intentionally trying to be retro with the music is needlessly limiting. I doubt that even if Senoue's direction is Genesis-style that it'll be bad, but I would MUCH prefer if they, well... just make good music. Don't try to adhere to a style besides whatever feels fitting for the level or situation.

Fadel posted a clip of Speed Jungle without music so people can add their own. Some use modern music and wouldn't you know it, it works!

https://xcancel.com/OnTheDownLoTho/status/1668116143654199296

 

Iizuka mentioned in the IGN interview that the Chaos Emerald power-ups were based on the Color Powers in Colors so I’d imagine they’ll function like the Wisps. Optional and not necessary for completion, but if you want to find all the secrets and get your money’s worth out of the levels you’ll be using them. Honestly giving you powers for each Emerald is such a great idea that I can’t believe it seemingly never occurred to Sonic Team before.

 

Classic Sonic music just needs to be good music, ideally based on musical genres and tropes from the 80’s and 90’s. It shouldn’t try to imitate being a retro game, it should instead pull from the same pool of influence that inspired those types of soundtracks.

Sonic 3, for example, was trying to emulate actual pop and hip hop music of the time. It only sounds like a retro video game in… retrospect

Edit: also, people across the internet make clearly exaggerated statements about, quite literally, everything and anything. Stop trying to analyse it and just get over it. Welcome to the internet. Welcome to humanity.

 

In my opinion, not using a tracker isn't even the issue, I believe the problem is much more fundamental: The way Jun composes "classic Sonic music" is quite often flawed: Using only some actual Mega Drive instruments, mixed with very questionable non-16-bit synth choices, along with short loops, and over-using that one Sonic 1 / 2 drum sample, equals a lot of mediocre, samey-sounding (and sometimes grating) music. Quite a number of the tracks he did for both Episodes of Sonic 4 loop too soon and lack the more catchy, distinct melodies of the classics.

For lack of a better term, I sincerely don't think Jun really "gets" Mega Drive music, at least not nowadays and not consistently. Sonic 4 Episode II included more authentic-sounding instruments, but also sorely lacked the instrument variety heard in games like Sonic 3 & Knuckles, and some synth choices were rather grating on the ears. As I touched upon above, Jun's percussion variety is also badly limiting here, why not use some Sonic 3 & Knuckles percussion for once?

Back to trackers for a moment: I'm currently working on a fan game involving Mega Drive music, one of the musicians is working purely in Logic Pro as their DAW, and I'm really pleased with how the results of that are coming along without a single use of a tracker, because despite that we're taking time to refine and iterate on tracks until I'm satisfied that they're polished. (Granted there will be some personal bias here, apologies if this comes across as off-topic advertising and/or bragging 'n' overly boastful, but I genuinely find my experience working with a musician for Mega Drive music on my project relatable to the topic at hand.)

My point is that the tool(s) of choice aren't necessarily the issue here, but rather whatever program(s) use and methods of composing Jun is doing are not being done optimally. I've heard some right banger remixes come out of Mario Paint Composer for example, and that's where it's clear the person has done a stellar job despite limitations. Actually, that's exactly the kind of dedication and hard work we got back in the Mega Drive games, producing absolute bops, meticulously composed competently within restricted circumstances. Maybe Jun simply hasn't got much passion for this style of music, but persists in doing it due to tradition, being picked by other people at SEGA to do such music, and still getting paid despite turning in rushed, half-hearted, flawed work.

I should clarify that I don't think Sonic 4 has an absolutely unsalvageable and horrendous soundtrack, I think it sounds pretty decent overall standalone; however, nothing exists in a vacuum, and it sounds significantly inferior when contrasted to what soundtracks came prior. Speaking of salvaging...

... Someone earlier in this thread asked about Sonic 4 music remixes which have better instrumentation, and I'll use this opportunity to share another example. Not only does the harder-hitting, leagues better percussion in this remix improve the associated level's atmosphere substantially, but also the added ambient section further contributes to the improved atmosphere while simultaneously extending the run time of the track before it loops. Definitely another one of my favourite Sonic 4 remixes; it's a very bittersweet thing for me actually, sweet because of how much better it sounds, bitter because it shows what could have been done officially.




I ended up rambling a fair bit here, whoops; but hey what can I say, I'm passionate about this series!

 

I really don't get people's distaste for Sonic 4's music. I'm listening to it as I write this, and I'm honestly enjoying it. It's not quite as good as CD or 3&k, but if Superstars' ends up sounding like Sonic 4, I wouldn't be upset.

 

The thing with Sonic 4 is that there are songs I actively detest, which is incredibly rare in Sonic for me. And when the songs are good (like the Metal Sonic music being so good that it rivals Stardust Speedway Bad Future as "Metal Sonic's theme" for me), it only makes the bad ones jarring.

I don't love everything in Lost World but I will never say any of it is bad. Even Sugar Lane, which was mentioned earlier, is good.

White Park Act 2 is on the lower end, but still not bad. But you put shit in like Oil Desert...

 

Is it sad that I actually vividly remember this?

Speaking of, I'm soooo happy they removed Sonic's forehead ass crack

Now can we PLEASE do the same for modern Sonic? Thank you so much SEGA!

 

It's a good idea but I understand why they never tried it before: the moment the series went 3D the emeralds went from gameplay unlockables to story/plot devices that you don't have to go out of your way to collect. Most of the games that had the old style were portables that didn't want to rock the boat. Ep4 was a painfully lazy retro throwback, and Mania was a good retro throwback, so both wouldn't want to shake things up too much.

This is legitimately like...the first 2D game that has a reason to get creative and experimental.