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Sonic Superstars: A New 2D Sonic Game (Fall 2023)

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by DefinitiveDubs, Jun 8, 2023.

  1. 100% agree on this; I love Classic Sonic, but this game became a genuine slog a third of the way through. I still beat the game to give it a fair shake (and I did like Egg Fortress more than most of the late game zones), but it's not something I'm eager to replay any time soon.

    Both Frontiers and Superstars subverted my expectations - liked Frontiers way more than I thought I would, and this game way less. If some of the bosses were nerfed, I could see myself enjoying this a bit more, but even the general level design is a bit more CD-like than I'd prefer.
     
  2. Rosiero

    Rosiero

    Mmph! Oldbie
    Is it me, or is this game kinda like Mega Man 11? 2.5D, new mechanic that they claim is optional but totally isn't if you don't want your shit pushed in, overly long and punishing levels...
     
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  3. Starduster

    Starduster

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    I thought Mega Man 11 had solid level design tbh, not to mention a much better use of its signature mechanic.
     
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  4. MH MD

    MH MD

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    That's just normal human behavior, nothing is perfect and even those "perfect games" as deemed by critics have a lot of flaws, it just depends if positive aspects outweigh those flaws in their eyes, for a recent example as i just beat Super Mario Wonder, it has it's own share of flaws too, some are just longstanding issues with the series "like repetitive bosses, you play the same boss basically throughout the game, the opposite issue of superstars in a way -, some are new issues that didn't exist in previous games, but the overall result is a positive experience that just drown any perceived flaws, which i think what matters most, and just like Superstars finale, Wonder did something very cool in it's last level that catered to my own tastes specifically that just made me willing to overlook anything else

    if people enjoyed entertainment products whose main purpose is to entertain in the first place, who am i to judge

    after a while playing the game i legit forgot about them emeralds powers, not one level actually required me to use it in any way and bosses have such long period of invincibility/unreachability that they aren't a factor anyway

    So... no not the same in my own experience, unlike MM11 which had levels obviously designed more to incentivize you to make use of them

    But also in MM1 it's part of your main kit from the beginning, unlike emeralds where you actually have to get them separately so it's really optional in that regards
     
  5. Sneekie

    Sneekie

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    It is absolutely like Mega Man 11, even the reaction to its existence and things like art style mirror it. Oh, and coming after a throwback title after 5+ years too. I mentioned it before that it reminds me of Crash 4.

    All in the same vague group of "revival of classic style gameplay with a new facelift that succeeds at reviving the old style; the new ideas are unique but not as refined as the old ideas; overly difficult in the optional parts".

    Hopefully Superstars doesn't follow them in inexplicably not having a follow-up despite being very successful
     
  6. Chimpo

    Chimpo

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    Not really? Double Gear is a base ability, and while the game does encourage you to use them, you're never pitted into a situation where you're forced to use it. The difficulty also depends on who you ask since 11 gave you a bunch of options with Newcomer, Casual, Normal and Super Hero.
     
  7. Yea, but then it gets weird when start accusing each other of having shit taste because of it. Like people calling Frontiers one of the worst games ever, and just last page we had someone call Superstars even worse than it.
     
  8. The Joebro64

    The Joebro64

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    I'm at Cyber Station and still having a ton of fun. Level design is great, the stage-specific gimmicks are fun, and the physics feel just right. This is definitely the next best thing after Mania 2. It's not Mania-tier but it's still a really great time. My only real complaint at the moment is the bosses but they're not too bad.
     
  9. Palas

    Palas

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    Iwill never understand why any stage that isn't Bridge Island gets called CD-like. Sonic Superstars is absolutely nothing like CD: it's focused on set pieces, ground gameplay, running and choosing paths appropriately when the game asks you to. That's S3&K. CD is like. The opposite of that.
     
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  10. Sneekie

    Sneekie

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    I think the more important thing about Mega Man 11's new mechanic is that they are much more general and utilitarian than the Emerald Powers. Either make fighting easier or make platforming easier. You can also consistently refill them and use them as much as you want. You can use them anywhere because you're always either fighting or platforming. Compare this to Water, which requires... water to work at all, or Vision, that only works if the level design has anything to see.

    So the Double Gears are optional, but they are more fine-tuned to the game's core design that it's easy to use them as often as the other Special Weapons. Though I feel that as a result, the Double Gears aren't much of a "wow" mechanic
     
  11. plushifoxed

    plushifoxed

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    Just started the game, and it's interesting so far but...
    I mean. I'm sure I'm at this point the millionth person who's complained about it, it's low hanging fruit, but... man.
    They gotta stop letting Jun Senoue embarrass himself like this. Just make him play a guitar or whatever!! Stop letting him use those awful faux-Mega Drive instruments!!!
    Augh...
     
  12. Chimpo

    Chimpo

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    Double Gear "wow" factor pops up when you stop using them as a crutch tool and utilize the full potential they unlock with all weapons. It's definitely a lot more thought out design wise than the Emerald powers.
     
  13. Sneekie

    Sneekie

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    That's true, but modern Mega Man has a bit of an issue where besides a few secrets and obviously beating the Robot Masters, you don't have a reason to use the Special Weapons except if you feel like it.

    It doesn't help that you get the weapons in any order and people will very likely go for weakness order, but the levels themselves are not designed with that order, so a player can end up in a stage where a Robot Master's weapon is useful, but you haven't beaten them.

    I don't think I've beaten MM11, I think I stopped right at the start of Wily Castle, but I played it using only the Mega Buster perfectly fine. The Double Gear with that was engaging, but considering how little the Special Weapons are used, I don't even think people know you can mix that with the Double Gear, intuitively at least.

    Funnily enough, the Emerald Powers are closer to the Special Weapons than the Double Gear.
     
  14. Chimpo

    Chimpo

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    That's just stubborness pushed by old heads since the inception of the series to do "buster only runs". People are doing themselves a huge diservice by not using the weapons. 11 has some of the best set in the franchise along with 9.
    Acquiring a new weapon not only gives you a training room to try it out, it also demonstrates the difference between standard use and Power Gear use with Mega Man even shouting "POWER GEAR!"
     
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  15. Sneekie

    Sneekie

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    People do buster-only runs because the Mega Buster is a really good all-around weapon that costs no energy. Even if you do use Special Weapons liberally, you're gonna have to use the buster in the end.

    I said "intuitively" for a reason. Yes, a player would know that they can use the Double Gear with a Special Weapon. No, that won't incentivize them to really try it out because there's no real reason to use a Special Weapon outside of boss battles. They'll know but they won't "know". Superstars tells you how to use the Vision power and I still don't remember to use it until the game tells me to.

    If a level actually uses a Special Weapon to a significant degree, then you'd have to fight its Robot Master to get it. But Mega Man games don't want to push you into an order, it wants you to figure it out by conventional logic (i.e., who looks the easiest to beat, who works on who) or choose by preference. I think they want to avoid people quitting a level based on "oh, I need to beat this other dude first".

    Mega Man 1 and 2 were before the formula was refined and borderline perfected and it had a lot of moments where the optional weapons were really important in a stage, but they did away with that in later games, along with having the weapons be more niche and specific because there's only so many ways to make a water weapon.

    I don't doubt this at all but yeah, games with sub-par weapons and Mega Man's general level design has conditioned people to not really try them.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2023
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  16. HEDGESMFG

    HEDGESMFG

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    I would just like to let everyone here know that I got the 5th green emerald on my first attempt.

    That is all guys. :V
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2023
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  17. The Joebro64

    The Joebro64

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    I nearly threw my controller at the TV doing that one. Took me FIVE tries.

    I love it!
     
  18. GoldeMan

    GoldeMan

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    I'm up to Zone 7 or 8 now and I am really enjoying the game itself. Playing it slowly because who knows how long until we get new Classic Sonic content. I already expected the level design to be more scattered and gimmicky like Sonic CD (since it is a Naoto Oshima's Company) and so I found the level design so far to be good. There were some really bizarre sequences where I was confused, but they didn't drag it own so much. There is a lack of polish here, but it isn't as jarring as I expected from the reviews.


    The music though. I don't know what happened. I'm sure others have beaten this horse to death already but... someone needs to pry those synths and that stupid drum sample away from Jun's hands pronto. The boss theme makes me laugh out loud every single time I heard it because it lacks any danger or energy. I get nothing from it besides "Music". Especially when coming after a banger like Pinball Carnival Act 2 it just seemed so laughable. Similarly, that Fang theme (atleast the one they play in the first few zones) is just the worst. Period. I smiled when the original motif came up but then it just hard cuts back to those bland guitars. Every single Jun track so far sounds exceptionally unpolished.

    Not that these were Jun too but, in the case of Lagoon City, Act 2 had a cool track but Act 1's was so formless. The Hydrocity theme being placed in there randomly made it feel even worse. Used as a crutch it felt like. "Hey we are a water stage too!" I wish they didn't try to be hypermelodic all the time. It gets to a point where every track has the same level of energy and intensity and style of melody that it makes me feel nothing. Pinball Carnival Act 2 is a perfect example of the opposite. It may not be as packed with upbeat high flying melodies as the rest of the soundtrack but the production fits that stage like a glove and because of that it instantly hooks to me much easier.

    Another favorite was Speed Jungle act 1. Everything about that track slaps. Best of all, it felt like it had momentum. Like you *feel* the speed from that level in that track. It fits the aesthetic of a "Speed Jungle" perfectly without over compensating for itself. Sand Sanctuary is also another highlight too, it felt like it was a track written around the aesthetic of the zone and not trying to be just "Sonic Level Music #106". There's more style and flair there that feels more immersive to the environment then something like Lagoon City Act 1.

    I know this seems to be contentious but I really like how difficult the game is (at least for me) the first boss in Pinball Carnival was really tricky and I found it a lot of fun. It felt nice to be challenged after I breezed through Sonic Mania back when it released. The bosses do, at times, overstay their welcome but I always felt it was because the animations play out so slowly and not because the boss itself was too much, if that makes sense. I'm very much looking forward to playing more. I can see this being a fun casual game to play through every few months or so if the last leg of the game keeps it up.

    I loved the rollercoaster section from Pinball Carnival Act 2. It was so much fun to me, though I can see how some may find it frustrating at points. Maybe the game isn't as polished as I hoped but the challenge is there and I really appreciate it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2023
  19. Iggy for Short

    Iggy for Short

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    Finally done.
    • Considering they call it "Trip's Story", there isn't really any story, which was disappointing. It's just a less interesting Encore Mode (+1 boss) that stands between the player and the true final boss.
    • Trip's final boss absolutely sucked. Instakill attacks have no place in a slow no-checkpoint fight like that, and the head slam attack doesn't feel fairly telegraphed when dying to the gap it creates means another 5+ minutes to reach it again. I think I hate Nack the Fang now.
    • The Super Sonic boss was... okay. It didn't feel built up to, narratively, and it takes waaay too long, but it's not painfully difficult. A lot of the attacks are actually kind of pointless, since being knocked back isn't really detrimental in the same way it is in 3&K's Doomsday Zone or Mania's Egg Reverie.
    • Tails also clearly should've lent the Tornado to Amy so she could help with ring duty, it's not like he can't fly. Y'know, when the boss isn't interrupting your helpful buddies with its 2D axis change. :argh:
    My feelings on the game are... a little soured now, honestly. There's good in there, but the more questionable choices overshadow it a bit, and between those and the boss design I dunno how inclined I'll be to replay this one any time soon.
     
  20. Palas

    Palas

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    Yeah I'm not a fan of invincibility windows or whichever other tricks the game pulls to make the bosses harder or longer, but boy do I enjoy the fact that they are harder. If this game has anything over Mania, it's that it doesn't feel like I'm sightseeing with my fingers. Not in the bosses anyway. Cyber Station's boss is a very high point to me: I had t actually focus on what I was doing, time my jumps correctly and make a moment out of the fight. It felt really good to hit the boss four times out of four windows, very seamlessly, before the second phase.