Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by TimmiT, Jul 23, 2016.
They asked if I wanted them in the back or on the cover, and I said I'd love them on the cover.
Once I figured out that jumping slows you down like a really cruddy drift, I stopped using it except where necessary and the special stages got SO much easier for me.
I think the Saturn mindset helped with the soundtrack too. Had they gone for a Sonic 4 effect and kind of limited themselves with only Genesis/32X soundfonts, I feel like the music would have taken a bit of a hit. It probably still would have ended up alright, but I feel like it wouldn't have felt as strong if they just used those kind of soundfonts for the game.
When they wanted to make Mania the long lost Saturn game from a different dimension, that alone heped the music production because it needed to have the CD-quality audio that any console back then would have (especially the Saturn). It was a nice call. Though I do think that even if it wasn't based on the idea that it's a Saturn Sonic game, it would have ended up with the higher quality audio anyhow. But who knows?
Sonic 4 for sure took a hit when Jun Senoue kind of limited himself by only using Genesis soundfonts. Granted, some of the tracks in 4 aren't bad (Metal Sonic in episode 2 has some nice songs, namely his boss theme and the Stardust Speedway remix) but they do feel kind of flat.
I think Sonic 4 may have sounded better had it used a Genesis soundfont, it certainly doesn't sound to me like it uses such a thing.
Sonic already had the Insta-shield, not the other way around...
Ya but in this scenario it was the other way around.
Personally I'm all for scrapping the drop dash and giving Sonic the insta shield and the Super Peelout (also a slightly faster max speed).
I think that's sort of a silly comparison to make, because nobody was calling for a drop dash move originally either. Most people didn't know they wanted it, until they had it. Otherwise, it'd probably have shown up in hacks before.
That said, i agree, I find the drop dash more useful than the instashield, even though there were several moments in mania where I tried to use the instashield out of habit lol.
Oops, guess I worded that wrong.
I mostly meant that he limited himself by trying a little too hard to make the songs sound like the classics. I forgot that the dying-cat music of that game wasn't Genesis soundfonts, my bad. Hope the general idea kinda came across though.
I go for every blue sphere, every ring, and jump drift pretty much all the time, and I think these are some of the easiest (but most fun) special stages in the series. Maybe it's just diverse enough that different people can approach it different ways, which is cool because no other special stage is like that.
But I love the Drop Dash. It's the perfect move for Sonic to me. I had to get used to it thanks to muscle memory, but when I did I couldn't go back to the insta-shield. Also the Super Peelout is dumb.
Idk, the drop dash can be a neat technical thing, but it's so slow compared to the peelout. That may require more planning and stopping for a second but you can get some nice quick speed bursts with the peelout.
The Super Peelout is like willingly crashing into everything. It leaves you way too exposed, so I don't enjoy it much.
While the drop dash, for once in a 2D Sonic game, feels like Sonic has his own unique ability nobody else will eventually copy. (Like the homing attack in SA2 or Sonic Heroes. Amy's hammer in Sonic Advance 2 also feels like a glorified insta-shield.) It's a neat little platforming tool I'd like to see again.
This is what I love about Mania's special stages. There's no one way to reach the emerald, and I like trying something different each time I'm in a special stage. I've reached a lot of emeralds with Mach 2, and other times I go for Mach 3 because I can; it gets easier to control once you know the layouts of the stage.
That's why I always roll right after doing a Super Peel-Out.
I'm okay with it not being fast because the drop dash has so many uses, like almost invalidating both Metal Sonic chases. The peelout never felt especially useful to me. I've grown to using the drop dash so much that I hardly see Sonic on foot anymore :v:
To be honest, I hardly used the insta-shield back in the day. It just felt like a move that was just there and the game didn't really force you to use it.
While sometimes I forget the drop dash is there playing the main campaign, it definitely comes useful in time attack.
The insta-shield is actually a lot like the drop dash and, for that matter, pressing "down" while moving to roll. It's something that has a TON of use and functionality the more you look for it and the better you get, but that's never expressly required to progress. Stuff like this is where a lot of Classic Sonic's depth comes from, of being easy to learn and difficult to master.
The drop dash, in my opinion, fits the formula so well and is so perfect for Sonic's moveset, it's a wonder nobody came up with it before. It's useful without breaking the game, gets MORE useful as your own skill improves, and fits with Sonic's signature superpower better than the insta-shield ever did.
I never used the instashield until years later when I figured out how good it actually is. However, the instashield doesn't have the same game-changing potential like Tails' flight or Knuckles' gliding/wall climbing did, so maybe that's why it became a thing. Sure, the instashield has lots of good uses in 3&K and can be considered as such, but it's not instantly noticable for most players. The drop dash provides an instant effect that's easy to figure out - gaining momentum back from a jump.
It gives Sonic his own stand-out ability, while at the same time being somewhat easy to understand and having application outside of fighting enemies/bosses. Tails' and Knuckles' abilities have lots of uses outside of fighting things, and they let you play the level in a whole different way at times. I guess they wanted to give Sonic something like that too - makes him stand out, and gives him a unique playstyle other than just "he moves faster than the others". What I mean by that is that Sonic's standout trait in 3&K is "he runs the fastest", and while that's cool, it doesn't feel immediately useful to the player. As mentioned before, the drop dash does, and it's results feel obvious and instant in most situations.
I like to think it's not so fast because it's a single spindash rev in the air. :v:
Some of my own thoughts and feelings:
If your mind is like mine, any (part of) any thing at any point can get stuck there whether you want it or not. Not fun, even if I love the song involved - like Lava Reef 2!
I didn't like the idea of the drop dash when I first heard of it not long after the game was announced. Anything that takes away my insta-shield gives me a sad, and this didn't seem like it'd be a worthwhile replacement at first, but now that I've had some time with it I absolutely adore it. I feel very much in control with it, as I did with the insta-shield. I love both moves a fair bit. My only problem with the drop dash is one I that I didn't have as much of with the insta-shield, in that you lose it when you get some kind of usable shield. I've had a few times where I tried to use it by accident and went flying forward ahead of schedule with the fire shield, but haven't quite yet had this mistake kill me to death. It probably will at some point, I reckon.
Bonus stages: (jacking this from my Steam review - this is my only real gripe with the game, honestly)
These Blue Sphere bonus stages massively overstayed their welcome. I was happy to see them at first, and they look so nice and smooth, but that particular joy faded away pretty quickly and turned to irritation after a while. It truly sucked that instead of the rewarding bonus stages in Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles that generally left you pretty well off and packing serious heat, you instead do these tedious stages and get absolutely nothing worthwhile in the end for it (in-game, that is). Seriously, screw this. I guess it works as a celebration of nice things about Sonic because these stages were certainly pretty fine and rewarding back in the day, but in this situation it feels like it just sits in the place of something that would potentially been much more fun and had an actual in-game point - that being bonus stages that have some kind of effect on your status when you do them.
Love 'em. Hard at first, but once you know what to do, you basically won't fail them later - even that blasted fifth emerald. (That one becomes much simpler the moment you eliminate that right field with the spinning groups of four as a route.) Also, that Saturn feel was so nice. I agree with whoever said they could play a whole game of these. It's pretty nice that they seem to have a bunch of different ways you can approach them; that there is pretty awesome.
Oil Ocean 2 boss:
I guess it's because I've been Sonicing since I was able to hold a controller, but I'm in that apparently off-to-the-side group that didn't find it very hard at all. Wasn't a fan of the waiting period, but I'm an impatient booger and didn't like that about the original one either (though in the original it was far too easy.)
...He does? Are you sure?
Honestly, not really. But I mostly meant that Sonic doesn't really have a standout ability in 3&K. He's just Sonic, and he gets the "get all emeralds" boss at the end.
He doesn't really stand out to the player most of the time, because Tails can fly and Knuckles can glide. What does Sonic do? Well he gets a shield thing...I guess.
Maybe I'm wrong, I dunno. But I think the drop dash really helps Sonic stand out from Tails and Knux in a good way.
He also gets new abilities with each gathered shield...
His stand out trait is really that he jumps higher than Knuckles (although I guess Tails does too)
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