Sonic Dream Team (New 3D Game from Hardlight, coming to Apple Arcade December 5)

This looks like the most creative modern Sonic game in a long time, and its...exclusive to iOS???

The Monkey's Paw effect is in full force here.

 

You could be right; the game could end up being nothing special. Shaddy could be right, too. It could end up being janky. But that's the case for every game, ever. And whatever we did see that got people angry it's exclusive and gated behind a subscription service to begin with (compare the first page in this exact thread to whatever came after), I do believe we did because Hardlight is working under an exclusivity contract.

But then your problem has nothing to do with it being exclusive. It's that it's exclusive to Apple Arcade in this day and age. Yes, the walled garden approach is terrible for anything that isn't in Apple's most immediate interests. And I have never owed an Apple product, and I'll most likely never will. And I don't think I have defended Apple's services anywhere, much less the subscriptin model. But if this was exclusive to -- say -- Android, these problems would be much less glaring. In degree. Isn't that right?

I don't get it. Yu don't need to trust my judgement, but the sentiment that the game looks promising seems widespread enough. The game will probably be just nice and not any kind of insane breakthrough for the franchise. But what we saw from ever since SEGA left the market console is Sonic not being able to find, perceive or foster a captive audience. Excluive games make that easier. It got easier for Lost World... but, above all, for Colors. A port is a port. I'd like to believe you develop ideas with the target platforms, and therefore audience, in mind.

As for Lost World, I would, and I in fact did say as much (as much as I didn't like Lost World, I was always ok with the exclusivity deal).

Should they? Crunch isn't something you plan to do; it's costly and not something you'd want to do over... not doing it, even as a soulless corporation. I don't know why you keep asking about things that should have been, and hypothetical scenarios that depend on... what, exactly? Like all it would be take is for higher ups at SEGA and/or Apple not to be assholes t have a game like Dream Team on every platform under the sun? Is that it? Because that sounds like you just using a platitude as a practical point.

 

So are we mad that it's exclusive to a service, or that it's Apple?

Because as much as I'd rather it be on other platforms AND think it sucks that it could gone if they decided to drop it off their service, exclusives are nothing new (and are in fact a cornerstone to how most game companies make business). And as much as I'd like to hope otherwise, I'm not sure if this game would've got the same loud response if it happened on Google Play Pass or Xbox Game Pass instead.

And I'm saying this as someone who doesn't like mobile gaming or subscription services. Iunno, folks.

 

Cause it's for a service, a digital service, and can't directly own it on it's own, and there is a risk that it can get lost with time cause licensing shit or something

 

Obviously if it were on the platform that already has much more widespread ways of accessing it, I would be less annoyed, yes. Exclusivity on principle is still dumb, but I am mostly talking about the effective accessibility. But also like, fuck consoles too? Obviously, fuck consoles.

I invoked Lost World because you'd seemingly have to argue that that game was developed solely as a Nintendo Wii U game (which I guess you're corroborating further here by talking about target audience expectations, even though I thought we were talking about the technical cost of multiplatform development), but if we know that there was always intended to be a PC version, doesn't that kind of invalidate a lot of the ideas you're claiming were innate to the console it was developed for? Is Rise of Lyric less of a Nintendo-exclusive Sonic game since it was meant for the PS4 and Xbone??? What is the unique creative vision that being on the Wii and ONLY the Wii brought Colors that massively differs from its two multiplatform repeats?

I mean, yes kinda? This whole thing started because we were talking about the kinds of defenses you see for Apple Arcade exclusivity, and how it carries this "But they haaaaaaave to, guys! They don't get to choose!" attitude, without mentioning that the thing SEGA and Apple don't get to choose is whether being an asshole is in their nature. The exclusivity deal, like crunch or DLC or what have you, is a by-assholes for-assholes decision, so essentially theorizing that it might cause them to not act like assholes is extremely dubious. It's ass the hole way down.

 

These last few pages have been hurting my brain. Send help.

 

I was going to say that even if this game doesn't do super well on Apple Arcade it will have a defined exclusivity period after which it will be distributed on other platforms, but this is probably the best argument I can see being made for it being discontinued. I'm not entirely convinced of this, but I don't intend to get the whole apple arcade thing, and so I don't know to what degree 'live service' components are an issue here. Sonic 4 Episode 1 and Sonic Jump on mobile are technological relics at this point, but because they are much more static games than Sonic Jump Fever, Sonic Runners, or, hell, even Sonic Dash, there's been no reason to remove them -- they're both at least technically playable (though S4E1 lacks sound) on my up-to-date Galaxy Note without requiring active maintenance.

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I personally don't like gaming subscription services at all, as it mirrors the Netflix/cable streaming model of having no concept of possession and the bullshit monetization model of Spotify; payouts are designed in such a way that making grindy games is encouraged. Between the mobile market and live service games, the economic incentive to make games like that is already there, and with these services becoming the way people interact with games, it's becoming increasingly inescapable for smaller teams who have a vision beyond "let's make people buy lottery tickets for mr beast reaction images" or "are you sure we can't call this 'wordle'" to sustain development, because people don't actually want to buy shorter games with less bump mapping that cost more etc etc. when they can rent them instead.

I've never been fully on board with the argument that, say, buying digitally distributed games is an extended rental because you don't know when the services hosting them will shut down, leaving you without access. After all, the same struggles can apply to physical copies of media; bit rot and hardware failures are real, and at some point the lower cost to buy a digital copy of a game makes up for the potential long-term loss of access to them. Being able to avoid the arduous process of manufacturing media makes the ecosystem more open, though I'm certainly more a fan of, say, itch.io and maybe gog over steam and epic for how they operate.

But I think one way I agree with the argument is that it's certainly gotten us to a point where we are much more willing to treat out media as ephemeral, with many platform holders explicitly working to promote that attitude (see any number of arguments against the use of the term 'content creator'). I think that is bad, and in that respect I agree with the people making the "extended rental" argument -- we've reached a point where it seems to be financially irresponsible to not take advantage of gamepass services to very literally rent digital games, and the shift in how we possess and interact with media is a key piece of this cultural shift.

"Rent-seeking is bad" is an uncontroversial economic opinion, but the shifts in the games market, and media in general, is increasingly away from purchases and into rent-seeking at all levels, from stuff like microsoft gamepass to individual online games' battle passes. Certainly in the context of live service games, these subscription services like gamepass/apple arcade aren't as bad as the battle passes, but as a wider trend in games and electronics in general, it's quite upsetting!

 

While I'm not really upset that this game is exclusive to Apple Arcade, I do think the nature of Apple Arcade can be a problem. Being a subscription service, you can't really own the games you play, and those games are at the risk of becoming delisted and inaccessible. My solution to this is to make all Arcade titles able to be bought standalone. I think the standalone prices for each of the 200+ Arcade games should be around $6.99. This will make getting a subscription rather than buying every individual game the more cost-effective option for consumers. I think this model can allow for the preservation of Arcade's games, while at the same time, keeping the appeal of Arcade as a subscription service.

 

I think the animation was neat.

 

I trust archival won't be an issue for this game and even though I think at one point raising a concern and making it known there's a market on other platforms was helpful at this point it's just repetition, especially in the limited reach of Sonic Retro.


In other news, Sonic Dream Team is being put front and center on Backbone's new promotion where they'll give you 3 months of Apple Arcade free. Not sure if it means people who own the controller in general or people who are subscribed to their specific service but it's an option I guess.

 

Ey, lucky for the folks that do manage to benefit from it! If they aren't immediate Sonic fans but are tempted to try it out, s'a win, yeah? Assuming it'll be a game worthy of their time, I mean.

 

Honestly, if SEGA ever had an itch to ditch classic Sonic's design for the above "modern" style -- I wouldn't be mad if it looked like that. I love when they make him expressive and respect his Japanese roots.

Sorry, but I absolutely hate the below render and I don't understand everyone's love for it. Replace it with the expressive style above please:

 

My cope as far as the big eyes go is that maybe it looks not-so-bad in-game where the camera's further away. Anyway I'm liking his reasonably-sized shoes and darker shade of fur.

 

Attempted a slight edit based on Heese's modelsheet. Luckily I'm a fan of his work.

 

I'm mad for the sake of being mad, personally!

 

Why would SEGA ditch classic Sonic for a second modern Sonic though...?

 

The eyes are kinda weird but honestly I'm glad the arms and shoes aren't freakishly big anymore, that was my main issue with the recent renders we got (and by recent I mean anything Unleashed onwards really)