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Sonic Boom (Games) Megathread

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by TimmiT, Oct 2, 2013.

  1. Jason

    Jason

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    Don't worry, Gene, you got Runners for that :v: .

    I hope the criticism of Boom pushes Sonic Team's game to 2016. There needs to be time to let the stink wash away. Say what you will about Runners' free-to-play nonsense, at least it's unironically amusing for an hour or so. It's keeping Sonic around inoffensively, which is about all I can really expect lately. I dread a big game announcement in the next couple of months, because the "Can Sonic 2015 overcome Boom's failings?" will be everywhere, stirring this up again.
     
  2. Dude

    Dude

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    It's almost like the original Sonic game design had highly varable character speeds that modulated themselves based off the player's skill.

    Nah, who needs such a game mechanic? Pick between a boost button and a crawl, what could possibly go wrong?
     
  3. TimmiT

    TimmiT

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    While sometimes someone who clearly had no intention of giving the game a chance reviews the game, that usually isn't more than maybe a couple of reviewers. And you know how the Sonic fanbase is when it comes to blowing things out of proportion.

    Obviously Sonic game design always needs to be the former, and there is absolutely no chance that any change would ever be good. Snarky snark snark.
     
  4. qwertysonic

    qwertysonic

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    But what about the inevitable new + - super important to the deep storyline we pulled out of our butts   character for the next game?
     
  5. Felik

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    How the fuck can people be tired of classic Sonic who literally appeared in a single game (and everyone loved it) since when, 1998? If you are going to justify your stupid desicion making at least come up with a somewhat credible reason.

    I feel like the target audience members were all abused in childhood by their parents who also happened to wear a sonic mask while doing so. That's the only reason I can come up for a person to be tired of something that was absent for ~10 years and made a single appearance since.
     
  6. Dude

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    Well, it's either that or have a constant dissonance in your game design and continue to leave the issue of speed modulation unresolved. You have to pick a gameplay speed somehow, why not use a set of mechanics that handles it automatically? Nowhere did I say the design can't change (after all, you can use any self-modulating mechanic you want to fill the gap, doesn't have to be the same one used by the older games), only that the issue has a resolution and a precedent staring them in the face.
     
  7. Beltway

    Beltway

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  8. Tiller

    Tiller

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    Speed Modulation is a good term for it. I have a had a hard time describing the stop > go > stop > go binary system Sonic Team have been using for Unleashed onward. Lost World doubled down on this with the running tiers and awful directional control despite having most of the tools to remedy it. Boom takes it to the extreme by separating the faster pace from other gameplay like Unleashed.
     
  9. AngelComa

    AngelComa

    Site Staff
    Personally thought he listen to fans too much. The game fell into the same 'Sonic Team' trap by trying to do way too much and became repetitive trying to push for a longer game. I'm almost a bit sad that fans are mad at the speed aspect, cuz I find that this is what makes Sonic 3D games meh compared to how good they can be. I find that most users dislike slowing down when you give them 'homing' and 'dash' moves or the level is harder to break down (platform here, go fast here).

    Personally think Sonic's speed is way out of hand, it wasn't even that fast in the Genesis games.
     
  10. ironic considering Sonic 2 was the start of the whole "Sonic is all about speed" argument. I think Stuttering Craig said it best in his Sonic 1 review: Sonic is all about good platforming. Seems like SEGA forgot that after Sonic3K and got brainwashed by their own marketing and advertisements.
     
  11. I would classify that along the lines of very, very poor interpretation.
     
  12. ICEknight

    ICEknight

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    Exactly, the fact that Generations sold well and got good reviews makes the point moot (I'm sure I wasn't the only one who even preordered it because of all the Classic goodness that was in it).
     
  13. GeneHF

    GeneHF

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    Iizuka wants the series to progress forward, not stay tied to the past. Classic Sonic was a one-off thing.

    But given his seniority with the company and the brand (since Sonic 3's development), he isn't going anywhere.
     
  14. TimmiT

    TimmiT

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    What part of Rise of Lyric made it look like they listened to the fans at all? It's also not like it's a long game, it takes about 7 hours to beat which is normal, if not shorter than what's normal for the kind of game that it is. Of all the problems the game had, it didn't feel like it tried to put too much stuff in it.

    As for the speed thing, as an evolution of the original Genesis games I'd agree that it's not that well done. But on its own, without trying to associate it with what Sonic used to be, I think the Unleashed/Colours/Generations gameplay is a lot of fun. Not like Sonic Team will likely stick with it. SEGA/Sonic Team tries to make every Sonic game different while they generally don't try to improve what was done in the previous games. Don't be surprised if this year's Sonic Team game is different from the past few games.
     
  15. Beltway

    Beltway

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    Define "progress forward". Sonic has "progressed forward" ever since the series was rebranded on the Dreamcast, and most of the time he's "progressed" it's arguably been for the worse. Even the one exception to the rule they did was itself too "progressed" from the source material in the negative context.

    The whole "Sonic should move on" point has been stated for quite some time now and it still doesn't make sense. Sonic hasn't "moved on" for some thirteen sixteen*/twenty years now.

    e: Also find it funny that the two console Sonic games that were the first to have a (mostly) positive reception in years, were games that in some aspects (one more than others) strived to be closer to the older titles outside of the superficial aspects, and subsequently were games that the older portions of Sonic's fanbase enjoyed in addition to the newer portions. Which I think makes it an obvious case of the frequent talk about "moving on", "change", and "living in the past" being misused by people with such weak positions and viewpoints.

    Maybe this is what the Sonic Boom playtester who leaked the game last summer was talking about when he said "the Americans being involved [with Sonic Team] hating the [classic] design and saying it's not modern enough" when people asked him why they don't use it anymore.

    Not that it still makes any sense whatsoever.

    e 2: I originally said thirteen, but changed it to sixteen because SA2 I feel was when the roots of problems that plagued 3D Sonic games really started to show. SA1 just laid the groundwork but can largely be forgiven by it being Sonic Team's first 3D entry with Sonic, which really shows when you see how poorly the game has aged. SA2 had no excuse for pretty much exacerbating SA1's flaws for the worse instead of refining / scrapping them completely.
     
  16. ICEknight

    ICEknight

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    And I don't know why SEGA hasn't still realized that Sonic games started getting mixed to bad reception ever since they started trying different things, instead of building on the games that made the Sonic franchise what it used to be.

    I mean, they greatly succeeded with the 4 games that were made from the success of Sonic 1... then they ditched all their past work and started from the ground up, only keeping the same brand name, similar-looking characters and a few gameplay elements, some of which (including Sonic's speed, the main gimmick) would just fade away with time. And today's outcome of all that is that they've just released a Sonic game designed by listening to anyone but fans of the series...


    Fully 2D games are a big thing now, so "we have to think how to change all the 2D aspects to fit in a 3D world in order to keep up with the times" is not even an excuse anymore. They currently have an opportunity to continue where their cglassic games left, thanks to the improved re-releases of CD, 1 and 2... but this time they're even refusing to release the biggest entry.

    In my oppinion, this is where at least one branch of the series should progress forward from, building from their all-time best received games without altering the core aspects (physics, game logic) that already made them a success. Basically, making an "anti-Sonic 4". =P
     
  17. Josh

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    Interesting point about focus groups saying they didn't like speed. I think there's this idea among gamers that Sonic's speed just can't work in a 3D environment. I'm guessing they were using Generations?

    The problem there is (and we saw it with some of the more critical reviews), Generations follows the old-school Sonic formula of giving you LOTS of speed easily in the first level, then requiring you to be progressively more skilled afterwards. But where in the Genesis games you'd get hit and need to take your time if you weren't skilled, in Generations, hitting the boost button without an idea of where you'll go will often send you careening to your death. And some players will just keep hammering it in spite of their own lack of experience, hoping for that flashy, fast pace that sometimes comes, like a rat in a skinner box. They're the ones who will hate speed no matter what, the ones who reviewed Generations and said that the only good levels were the ones based on the Genesis games.

    I was expecting a LOT more out of Rise of Lyric, but even if they'd absolutely nailed every aspect of it, it wouldn't have felt anything like a Sonic game. And that's sad, that it came to that.
     
  18. AngelComa

    AngelComa

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    ^^ Yes. Having a slower more platform friendly Sonic title that is more simple would have been the better idea. The problem is that Big Red Button just added too much shit. "Oh we should put speed sections like Sonic Dash to have older Sonic fans happy. Oh open world is boring to traverse? No, no need to make him fast here".

    Honestly should have dropped the open world, co-op stuff and made a simple map type (Mario World) to pick stages and just play those.

    The thing is, this isn't a Sonic game, its a Sonic Boom game. I think the issue with the Sonic fanbase is they cry at changes. I mean, they could have accepted it if it was good, but like you said 'even if it was good its not a Sonic game' and what is wrong with that? Its not part of the Sonic universe.

    Maybe the game just wasn't good and the repetitive nature made it seem like it was longer? Also there is a part of the fanbase that wants a slower Sonic game with platforming and the platforming parts of the game weren't terrible, just very average.

    Well the game had:

    1. 2D platforming
    2. 3D Platforming
    3. Open world
    4. Speed sections
    5. 4 playable characters
    6. Ship combat
    7. That water combat
    8. Obviously cut plane combat
    9. Co-op mode
    10. Fighting

    Just reminds me of the hole that Sonic Team would put themselves in with Adventure and Adventure and later Sonic Heroes.

    All this stuff has to be created and since the game had to come out with the show, I'm surprised they didn't just make a more down to earth and simple game. Personally don't think making a Ratchet and Clank style Sonic game is a bad idea what-so-ever as long as its done right (which this wasn't). I just think its a bit pathetic that the one thing Sonic fans are freaking about about is that it isn't a fast game... its like... the less insulting thing about this game.
     
  19. VectorCNC

    VectorCNC

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    I apologize for the vaguely thread related proceedings, but its been going this way as of late anyway...

    I simply don't understand the logic that sonic needs to be reinvented for a new audience. Sonic was reinvented since Adventure, if you took the series back to its roots THAT WOULD BE REINVENTED as far as a new/younger audience is concerned. They know that us die hard fans are desperate for a return to the classic formula, and the classic formula has been a huge success with Mario. Why do they insist on this crap idea that new fans and old fans won't like the same things? It's a lie, plain and simple. Basically SEGA keeps making crap games that are shit across the board, and in order to defend themselves they scapegoat the classic fans and the media uphold this narrative by parading the weirdest people and furry art the internet has to offer as though they are an accurate representative of the Sonic fan base.

    I've heard musicians and designers say time and again that Classic Sonic the Hedgehog inspired them, the music, the architecture and aesthetic, etc. Lizuka wants to move the series forward?.. By making Sonic look like a generic Pixar-esque wannabe, with lame pop-rock day-at-the-beach music, it's bull. If Sonic wants to be avant garde they should return to the late 80s-early 90s... No seriously, they should, it's cool again. That's where all the great "way past cool" style is coming from right now.

    1. Sonic means SOUND it needs heart pumping electronic house music. They should get actual quality DJ's or other electronic artists to compose for them.

    2. A deco / memphis milano hybrid ought to be the aesthetic, it harkens the past, it's surreal geometric and vibrant.

    C. Japanese anime ought to be the cultural centre.

    5. Develop some new level tropes for christ sake, classic fans want a return to the old formula, but not a reproduction of the exact same tropes 1000 times over.

    Sonic has what it takes, SEGA is drowning Sonic in mediocrity when he could be a modern day Fresh Prince... Just allow the franchise to become the logical progression of what it always was.

    There. SEGA, I gave you a rough outline to snag children, attract a new audience, give young adults and long time fans a wet dream, and bring Sonic back to life as a cultural icon once more...

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    https://youtu.be/c4MbII36_vQ

    https://youtu.be/644UU55eyzk?list=RDtfRJhmC-G1Y
     
  20. AngelComa

    AngelComa

    Site Staff
    The thing is, this is talking about Sonic Boom, not about Sonic Team's Sonic series.

    While I agree on that side of things (Sonic Team main games) shouldn't try to reinvent themselves, I don't see an issue having Sonic Boom being a slower paced platforming title. I think most of the stuff that people hated (customs, designs) are out of the hands of someone like Stephen Frost who is being blamed by people for what focus groups said.

    For sure, if it was up to me I would simply have them strip all this shit that has been added on Sonic over the years. While I think there was still some bad games related to Sonic in his prime (so did Mario), its main series games always where good and now its on and off. It went from 1 button and a d-pad to like... dash pads, jumping, homing attack, fighting, friend side quests, overally dramatic cutscenes, adding characters, bringing characters just to do it, and so on.