Sonic 3 Complete

Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by Tiddles, Dec 25, 2009.

  1. Josh

    Josh

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    This is only partly-related, but I just noticed the rather fascinating blog Neo links to in his sig, talking in-depth about Sonic 3 from a technical standpoint. Keep it up, man, I'm really enjoying your work!

    EDIT: Derp, and I made a new page. Here's a link so you don't have to click back.
     
  2. Blastfrog

    Blastfrog

    Frog blast the vent core! Member
  3. Without wishing to insult Tiddles, S3C doesn't seem to have a future with him. Neo has done a lot of work over the last few years and clearly still has quite a passion for S3K, whereas Tiddles' lack of time and interest seems to be preventing this work from being released. Now that development of S3C has once again ceased for the forseeable future, it seems like the perfect time for one last release. To not do so would be a complete waste of Neo's work. If this "final version" of Tiddles-approved S3C was released, maybe Neo would then be free to continue work under a new hack name and make the changes he really wants to, using S3C as a base. This seems like a win/win/win to me - fans get what they want, Neo gets to do what he wants, and Tiddles can finally put his hack to bed.
     
  4. Tiddles

    Tiddles

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    Well, this took a turn, didn't it.

    Neo's summary is pretty much dead right. I appreciate the offers from the community to assist, but my experience is that anybody who really has the passion about this sort of thing to want to help has their own ideas about where it should go, and basically ends up frustrated by my insistence on control.

    I don't have any intention of releasing in its current state - it needs some polish around options, and there's more I wanted to do with those. I don't do public betas - I don't think a beta is consistent with the idea of something that's supposed to be a polished enhancement of a final release. And as Neo said, I don't have time to get it out of that state, and don't envisage having time. I also wanted to release an open source version with pure bugfixes only at some point as a hack basis, but if I don't have time for this, I definitely don't have time for that.

    Here's the offer I will make: as of now, I'm giving Neo the right to fork the entire thing under a new name and proceed according to his own will. I will not be directly involved, but I will be happy to give technical advice if asked (subject to time etc) and to link to it as a blessed successor project.

    I can't tell you anything about his time or willingness either - he has his own plans now (and the blog is a real treat and you should all be reading it if you love Sonic 3). It's just an offer.

    And barring a resurgence in time or enthusiasm, that's probably the last I have to say about it in public. Thanks for your support over the years. It's touching that people care that much about it, but you know, I'm just a guy who made a thing for myself and got kind of overwhelmed by putting it out to the public. Most of the coolest things in S3C would never have happened if I hadn't, and I'm very grateful for that push forward, but it's also a lot of pressure and expectation, and I've had to step back from that now. If nothing else happens, I hope you'll continue to enjoy what's already out there - I'm very proud of it, and I hope everyone else involved is too.
     
  5. Josh

    Josh

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    Thank you, Tiddles. Sonic 3 Complete is the definitive version of my - and most people here's - favorite game. I could never find the words to express what a fantastic experience playing it is, and I wish there was some way to express even a modicum of the gratitude I feel you deserve for the years of work you've put into it. Again: THANK YOU.
     
  6. MastaSys

    MastaSys

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    That's the best thing you could do at this point, and something you didn't really needed to do at all.
    Thank you for everything once again.
     
  7. Knucklez

    Knucklez

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    Well put, I can't think of anything else this really needs in its current state. I think you've done far beyond what you set out to do.

    After all these years, again, THANK YOU.
     
  8. Fred

    Fred

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    Sorry for shitting the bed, dad.

    While I would be humbled to carry on the Sonic 3 Complete name, I'm not sure what to do right now. On the one hand, the kind of hack I would make lines up with S3C's mission statement to a T: an extended, curated version of the original game that adds stuff without messing with the fundamentals. On the other hand, there's so many things I would do away with that it would also feel disrespectful to call it the next version of S3C. I've been working on something on the side which might or might not work out. If it does, whether it will fold into S3C remains to be decided.

    Thanks kindly about the blog; it's only just starting out and it's keeping me busy. I too am just a guy that does stuff, and I wouldn't be doing it if not for some of you, so really, thank you for all your help and encouragement. Whatever happens, let's just keep having fun. :)
     
  9. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    Working on my art!
    Perhaps you could change the title and call it Sonic 3 Expanded or Extended or something?
     
  10. DigitalDuck

    DigitalDuck

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    Sonic 3 Neo.
     
  11. nineko

    nineko

    I am the Holy Cat Tech Member
    "Neo Sonic 3" would make more sense, the fact that "Neo" means "New" in Latin would make that title twice as fitting, since it would be a new version of Sonic 3 made by someone whose username is, too, Neo.
     
  12. ICEknight

    ICEknight

    Researcher Researcher
    Sonic 3 Combined?


    Or maybe Sonic 3 Season Pass. =P
     
  13. synchronizer

    synchronizer

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    You could finish polishing what is there at least and take it from there.
     
  14. Fred

    Fred

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    Thanks guys I wasn't really looking for a name and I kinda hate my handle on here but I guess I'm stuck with it haha


    Don't worry, I have no plans to "start over" (I actually have no plans period) but I would do a decent amount of feature culling.
     
  15. Neo, I quite enjoy reading your blog, so please keep it up as time permits! :) Whatever you do in the future, I'm sure it'll be great! Heh, and yes, I know you're not looking for any potential names (please forgive me, but I can't help but to point out the obvious here), but one came to mind; Ultimate Sonic The Hedgehog 3 or Sonic The Hedgehog 3 Ultimate (or I guess Sonic 3 Ultimate).

    Tiddles, thank you for everything you've done over the years. Sonic 3 Complete is one of the main reasons I bought a flashcart (well, several over the years actually) and got back into Genesis gaming AND ended up collecting Genesis hardware. I honestly can't stand playing vanilla Sonic 3, Sonic & Knuckles or Sonic 3 & Knuckles anymore - to me S3C is the definitive Sonic 3. I'm sure others feel the same way. ;)
     
  16. Brainulator

    Brainulator

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    First of all, I have to mirror the thanks that others have given, as it proves that the impossible is possible.

    What is this "feature culling" you speak of though?
     
  17. Brainulator

    Brainulator

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    And if I may lighten the mood further, here's something I hope Tiddles sees:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtQ6tcpdQ-c

    He finally beat it fully. :-D
     
  18. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

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    Say, I think a good change to implement would be making it so that the times recorded in Competition mode are shared by S3&K and S3. Competition mode is virtually identical between the two, so I never saw the point of each one saving the records to separate locations in the SRAM file. A way of implementing this would be making it so that whenever a new time is recorded, it's saved to both addresses in the save file, the S3&K address and the S3 address. That way the records would be accessible by vanilla ROMs of both S3&K and S3 if you load the SRAM file with them.
     
  19. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

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    Any way of disabling the "smoother" rotation in the slot machine bonus stage? It looks pretty ugly IMHO (no offense, Cinossu). The method used seemingly adds more rotation frames, but instead of adding extra graphics for the new angles, it just moves the blocks around to simulate rotation. As a result, many frames have the blocks misaligned, making it look like the stage is getting constantly warped...

    [​IMG]
    It may not have looked as bad if the blocks were circular, but since they're square and are placed next to each other to form straight lines, it's extremely noticeable. Vanilla S3&K doesn't suffer from this nearly as much. There's a reason Sonic Team didn't use more frames for the rotation. That way it doesn't look like the blocks are having trouble staying aligned and the whole area is about to fall apart in any second.

    Unrelated, but why was the cutscene from the beginning of Knuckles' story in Sonic & Knuckles removed? Technical limitations, oversight, or design choice? And why was The Doomsday relabeled as just "Doomsday" in the level select, which is inconsistent with its name in the title card?
     
  20. Knucklez

    Knucklez

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    The cutscene, within the scope of the S3C project, was no longer regarded as the point where Knuckles gets attacked by EggRobo. It was intentional because it no longer makes sense to have it there since it was moved to AIZ in the full game.

    Doomsday was an intentional change that makes more grammatical sense on the level select by itself. The Doomsday Zone makes more sense on the title card. Nothing to worry about.