Sonic 3 Complete

Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by Tiddles, Dec 25, 2009.

  1. Fred

    Fred

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    The problem is that once you're airborne, you can't opt to transform or not. Since you need to hold C to be able to transform, you need to decide that you're going to do it in advance. Personally a lot of times I quickly transform when I realise I'm about to fall into a hazard; I can't do it with this system.

    Also, B+C? That's pretty cryptic. Personally I'd go for full-blown A+B+C, and be able to test it in midair. Can still be compatible with debug by making it check for C being pressed, then checking B (branching out of the edit mode toggle) and finally checking A.
     
  2. SuperSonicRider

    SuperSonicRider

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    Good point. The instant invincibility supplied by a Super transformation can really help such a situation; heck, I do it myself sometimes.

    But it is nice to still to be able to detransform after, as well as not having Knuckles or Tails suck up your rings while attempting to fly/glide.
     
  3. <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    *idea stealing image*<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I read through the thread and saw other suggestions, but I think it works just fine. It's not like the guy ripped of the entire Megamix game and decided to call it "Sonic 3 Megamix". :P
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    The image is from a hack mocking the idea of stealing ideas, meaning that idea Tiddles shouldn't be apologetic in his use of the idea. I've completely forgotten who made the hack, though.

    EDIT: Disregard that last sentence, it was Cinossu
     
  4. Vague Rant

    Vague Rant

    Deceptively cute Oldbie
    <!--quoteo(post=394282:date=Jan 11 2010, 09:08 AM:name=ICEknight)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ICEknight @ Jan 11 2010, 09:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=394282">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...How about using triple jump instead? Oh yeah, Tails. =\

    I'm starting to think that the double-jump transformation should return, to avoid everybody else having this problem. The B+C (or perhaps, any button + any other button) de-transformation could be kept as some kind of easter egg, though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    This is the kind of thing that I think would be nice as a patch, or as an optional feature in Hayate's customisable version of the hack. Personally I'm not into the B+C transform at all; as much as the transform can be frustrating, it's a part of the game, and something I've never felt hurt the experience, just forced a bit of strategising. I get that some prefer it, and some like the ability to detransform at will, but the fact that different people want a different game is kind of the point of Sonic 3 Customizable.
     
  5. djdocsonic

    djdocsonic

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    <!--quoteo(post=394287:date=Jan 10 2010, 02:32 PM:name=Hayate)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hayate @ Jan 10 2010, 02:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=394287">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sorry, what? Two-button transform is a problem? Is it that hard to hold one button and press another?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Hey man, no its not a problem at all. I was obviously being a Tard and didnt read the whole thread. Nice 1 :) Now if only I could change the 1 up sound to be the S&K One which I think sounds a lot better.
     
  6. Tiddles

    Tiddles

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    <!--quoteo(post=394299:date=:name=Neo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Neo) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=394299">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The problem is that once you're airborne, you can't opt to transform or not. Since you need to hold C to be able to transform, you need to decide that you're going to do it in advance. Personally a lot of times I quickly transform when I realise I'm about to fall into a hazard; I can't do it with this system.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->This, I'll admit, is not a scenario I considered. I just had a quick play with it and didn't have much trouble jamming both at once for a quick transform after having released the jump button (on an MD-like pad it was a matter of shifting my thumb half a button left, as a C-button jumper), but that was an artifical scenario - even if you could pull that off in a pinch, it's a change from the combo you'd need to hit in the original version, which is no doubt frustrating.

    <!--quoteo(post=394299:date=:name=Neo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Neo) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=394299">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also, B+C? That's pretty cryptic. Personally I'd go for full-blown A+B+C, and be able to test it in midair.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "test it in midair". You can do it with A+B+C if you want, it doesn't stop the transformation because you hit A too (but you'll still get gravity swapped if you have debug on, which would be a bit awkward, to say the least...)

    I'm pretty intent on keeping this in, honestly, but next time I'll do my best to have it patchable back to the original way. I know it's frustrating to find a patch that does 30 things you like and one thing you really hate. I almost had a patch in the 091230 collection for it, but at that point it was conflicting with the rest of the patches, and I wanted to get what I had out there. Plus Hayate is working on a whole bunch of options for Customizable, so hopefully there'll at least be something in there to suit everyone.

    <!--quoteo(post=394415:date=:name=djdocsonic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (djdocsonic) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=394415">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Now if only I could change the 1 up sound to be the S&K One which I think sounds a lot better.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->There's a patch to change the whole theme collection back to S&K, but not that one alone... I must admit that if I were personally going to revert a track to S&K style, it would be that one. I might do a patch for it next time - if I swap a couple of things around it'll be simple.
     
  7. Fred

    Fred

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    <!--quoteo(post=394528:date=Jan 11 2010, 07:29 PM:name=Tiddles)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tiddles @ Jan 11 2010, 07:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=394528">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "test it in midair".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I was under the impression that you can't transform after letting go of the jump button. Am I mistaken?
     
  8. Since you're adjusting sprites and stuff, in addition to what was mentioned for Tails/Knuckles' sprites in Doomsday Zone, how about Super/Hyper Sonic snowboarding in the beginning of ICZ1? ;)
     
  9. Tiddles

    Tiddles

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    <!--quoteo(post=395082:date=:name=Neo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Neo) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=395082">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I was under the impression that you can't transform after letting go of the jump button. Am I mistaken?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->You can, but you have to hit B and C simultaneously to do so, which is obviously a bit unintuitive. It does work though, and I didn't have too much trouble timing it right during testing - but it might not be so easy to pull off as a reflex action. It won't work if you've already performed a double jump action though.

    <!--quoteo(post=395371:date=:name=King)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (King) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=395371">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Since you're adjusting sprites and stuff, in addition to what was mentioned for Tails/Knuckles' sprites in Doomsday Zone, how about Super/Hyper Sonic snowboarding in the beginning of ICZ1? ;)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I'm more inclined to just stop transformation during snowboarding rather than try to fix it up and add sprites. Aside from ROM size limitations, I'm not much of an artist, so there aren't likely to be many more outright new sprites, if any - I think the Flying Battery EggRobo I cobbled together from other sprites is about the best I can do in that direction. :)
     
  10. I suggest we do the entire technical parts first, then get the sprites done. That, or have two teams of spriting and technical engineering.
     
  11. <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm more inclined to just stop transformation during snowboarding rather than try to fix it up and add sprites. Aside from ROM size limitations, I'm not much of an artist, so there aren't likely to be many more outright new sprites, if any - I think the Flying Battery EggRobo I cobbled together from other sprites is about the best I can do in that direction.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I think somebody mentioned using Super Tails' running sprites and Knuckles' glide in Doomsday Zone. In regards to having Super Sonic snowboarding, if you have all the emeralds and use debug before touching the emeralds, you can place a S box, transform, then go down the hill with Sonic's sprite's glowing yellow as Super Sonic. There's no custom sprites needed it looks like. :P
     
  12. nineko

    nineko

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    You can also collect 50 rings on that slope and transform to Super/Hyper Sonic normally, as seen in Golds's videos.
     
  13. Puto

    Puto

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    <!--quoteo(post=394528:date=Jan 11 2010, 07:29 PM:name=Tiddles)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tiddles @ Jan 11 2010, 07:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=394528">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=394299:date=:name=Neo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Neo) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=394299">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The problem is that once you're airborne, you can't opt to transform or not. Since you need to hold C to be able to transform, you need to decide that you're going to do it in advance. Personally a lot of times I quickly transform when I realise I'm about to fall into a hazard; I can't do it with this system.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->This, I'll admit, is not a scenario I considered. I just had a quick play with it and didn't have much trouble jamming both at once for a quick transform after having released the jump button (on an MD-like pad it was a matter of shifting my thumb half a button left, as a C-button jumper), but that was an artifical scenario - even if you could pull that off in a pinch, it's a change from the combo you'd need to hit in the original version, which is no doubt frustrating.

    <!--quoteo(post=394299:date=:name=Neo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Neo) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=394299">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also, B+C? That's pretty cryptic. Personally I'd go for full-blown A+B+C, and be able to test it in midair.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "test it in midair". You can do it with A+B+C if you want, it doesn't stop the transformation because you hit A too (but you'll still get gravity swapped if you have debug on, which would be a bit awkward, to say the least...)

    I'm pretty intent on keeping this in, honestly, but next time I'll do my best to have it patchable back to the original way. I know it's frustrating to find a patch that does 30 things you like and one thing you really hate. I almost had a patch in the 091230 collection for it, but at that point it was conflicting with the rest of the patches, and I wanted to get what I had out there. Plus Hayate is working on a whole bunch of options for Customizable, so hopefully there'll at least be something in there to suit everyone.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    How about just one specific button transforming you, while the rest do the regular double jump actions? (for example, A turns you Super, B and C cause regular double jump actions)
     
  14. DigitalDuck

    DigitalDuck

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    <!--quoteo(post=396268:date=Jan 15 2010, 01:25 PM:name=Puto)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Puto @ Jan 15 2010, 01:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=396268">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How about just one specific button transforming you, while the rest do the regular double jump actions? (for example, A turns you Super, B and C cause regular double jump actions)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    And lo, we turn this into another thread where people argue about which buttons should be used to jump, and which ones should be used for a secondary action. Total so far: 4.
     
  15. Here's an idea, how about a two-stage transformation for Sonic & Knuckles? If you have the Chaos Emeralds and the Super Emeralds, you can use B+C to transform into Super Sonic/Knuckles first then if you press B+C again you transform into Hyper Sonic/Knuckles. Press the combo again and you revert back to normal. Tails would have only transformation, obviously.

    This would really remind me of Super Saiyan to Super Saiyan 2 transformations. =P
     
  16. amphobius

    amphobius

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    <!--quoteo(post=396382:date=Jan 15 2010, 07:03 PM:name=King)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (King @ Jan 15 2010, 07:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=396382">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Here's an idea, how about a two-stage transformation for Sonic & Knuckles? If you have the Chaos Emeralds and the Super Emeralds, you can use B+C to transform into Super Sonic/Knuckles first then if you press B+C again you transform into Hyper Sonic/Knuckles. Press the combo again and you revert back to normal. Tails would have only transformation, obviously.

    This would really remind me of Super Saiyan to Super Saiyan 2 transformations. =P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    This. This fucking here.
     
  17. Chaos Knux

    Chaos Knux

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    I actually think that might be somewhat nice. Sometimes Hyper Sonic/Knuckles is just too fast, while the same instance in Super Sonic is just perfect. Hyper does move faster than Super IIRC.
     
  18. I'd personally prefer to stay as Super Sonic/Knuckles throughout the game rather than transforming to Hyper but still be able to completely beat the game with the good ending with all emeralds. Plus if you needed an extra 'boost', you could transform from Super to Hyper. =P
     
  19. Tweaker

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    <!--quoteo(post=396382:date=Jan 15 2010, 02:03 PM:name=King)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (King @ Jan 15 2010, 02:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=396382">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Here's an idea, how about a two-stage transformation for Sonic & Knuckles? If you have the Chaos Emeralds and the Super Emeralds, you can use B+C to transform into Super Sonic/Knuckles first then if you press B+C again you transform into Hyper Sonic/Knuckles. Press the combo again and you revert back to normal. Tails would have only transformation, obviously.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    [​IMG]
     
  20. Chaos Knux

    Chaos Knux

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    I don't understand how that image fits in this context Tweaker, care to elaborate?