Music Remastered

Discussion in 'Sonic 2 HD (Archive)' started by Athelstone, Apr 24, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Athelstone

    Athelstone

    Oldbie Oldbie
    --- Current Goal: Sweet Dreams/Ending Theme, Staff Credits, Hill Top Zone---

    All remastered music should transcribe the originally intended instruments and overall style, whilst updating them to today's musical standards. Obviously style can be enhanced by adding some more detailed notes, good instrument sets, stereo panning and velocity changes, as well as overdubs or complete drum kits and loops. The tempo and notes themselves should remain mostly untouched, but of course, new notes are also welcomed to avoid shallow sounds. In order to capture the ambience that Sonic Team originally intended, we prefer remastered music than remixed music. Here is an example from one of our top music contributors. The original genesis tune plays first, followed by its remastered counterpart: Click here to download!

    Updated 9/23/09:
    To further clarify exactly what the project management is looking for, here's three key guidelines.

    Is the submission faithful?
    -the piece is easily recognizable as representing a given zone or theme from the original game

    Does the submission go above simply recreating the original?
    -the piece makes use with modern instruments/samples to create a new work fitting the theme and atmosphere of each area.

    Does it inspire?
    -not only does the piece show a faithful and reimagined take on the original, but leaves its listeners impressed that this is one of the big ways Sonic 2 HD is living up to its promise.

    So what does all that mean? Here's a few examples for you.

    Ransom Rath's Metropolis
    Mesmonium's Oil Ocean
    Blast Processing's Death Egg

    All remastered music MUST be submitted in the OGG Vorbis format at 320 kbps. This is largely because the MP3 format has some inherent limitations when it comes to looping music, which makes it unuseable for the project. When uploading music submissions to the database, it is preferred that they be included inside a .ZIP file.

    You can download all the original music from Sonic 2 (including individual tracks from each tune) from our database, as a reference. All of the community's current music submissions are also available to download from the database.



    --- scubaSteve's abbreviated guide to keeping your pieces from making people say "It's too MIDI!" ---

    • First off, if your sampler patches don't have velocity mapped to note volume, you'll need to do this yourself. (As far as I know, any sampler in existence can do this - it's a very basic feature) As I said, you MUST use note velocities! This is always the best first step towards creating a more natural sound. Really take some time to imagine how each part should be expressed, how they should flow into each other, etc., and adjust your note velocities accordingly.

    • Also, if your patches do not have multiple velocity layers - I.e., different samples for different ranges of velocities - you should consider on instruments with large ranges of timbres, such as brass, mapping velocity to a filter which will open up as velocity increases. Generally you'll want no greater than a 12dB/oct lowpass, as anything higher usually sounds unnatural. If your sampler can't do this (though most should), you'll unfortunately have to automate the filter by hand if you want the effect.

    • Regarding the attack lengths, if your sampler is capable of changing the sample start time, this should your first choice for adding variation to attack times. For many instruments and applications, mapping the sample start along with volume to note velocity will do the job just fine; however, if you're looking for more control - ex. if you need a softer note with a short attack - you'll need to map the sample start to an external control (mod wheel, expression, aftertouch, etc.) and automate that.

    • If the attack lengths seem fine but the strong notes just don't have enough punch, this is where a compressor becomes useful. Set it up with a short attack time (10-100 ms) and a long release (>200 ms) so that the attack of each note comes through before the compressor squashes the rest of the note down. You might also want to adjust the threshold so that only the louder notes are compressed.

    • Lastly, on parts with a strong rhythmic presence (so definitely drums), it often helps to very slightly randomize the positions of the notes. This is especially important on instruments where you might have multiple notes triggering simultaneously - the toms on a drum kit are a particularly good example. Every DAW that I've used has a randomization function for this purpose, so I'd assume that most others have it as well.

    I think that we also need to clarify just what it is we mean when we say "It sounds too MIDI!", as there seems to have been some confusion over this lately. Being the bunch that we are, I'm sure we're all well aware that even the oldest MIDI compositions can sound great today - it really comes down to the quality of the composition itself (Rob Hubbard, anyone?). However, I believe it was the initial attempts at using sampled instruments - especially in games - that gave MIDI a bad name, and is often what we're thinking of when we use the term informally. So I think, in a nutshell, what this usage of "MIDI" has mutated to mean today is simply "unnatural". Therefore, when we say something "sounds MIDI", it doesn't necessarily have to do with the quality of the samples - it's how you use them!

    More general advice:
    Generally you should EQ instruments individually as you add them, and shouldn't do a full-mix EQ until you're close to being done. Furthermore, as a rule of thumb, on your final EQ you should never need to apply more than 2 or 3 dBs anywhere - any more and it's likely that you have a single instrument (or two) that's causing problems.


    For any other questions regarding music submission to the project, send a PM to scubaSteve or Canned Karma
     
  2. Tweaker

    Tweaker

    Misfits
    12,389
    0
    0
    Two songs that I've done are missing from this list. Here they are:

    - Mystic Cave Zone (2P)
    - Emerald Hill Zone (2P)

    Secondly, I also have an interesting version of Emerald Hill if you're up to it, which you can get here; if that doesn't suffice, I'll work on a "normal" version upon confirmation.
     
  3. Moogle!

    Moogle!

    Member Member
    225
    0
    0
    These song remasters are really great.

    However, I would like to point out that Bluest Sky is not by DJPretzel, but Kaijin. This really kind of suggests to me you planned on using this without permission. Please do not do this.
     
  4. Athelstone

    Athelstone

    Oldbie Oldbie
    The link for the Mystic Cave (2p) doesn't seem to be working.

    The dirty house remix sounds interesting, but it's not close enough to the original to be suitable.

    I've added your Emerald Hill (2p) to the list.

    Cinossu's Emerald Hill sounds very good indeed, although I'm still debating with myself whether it's suitable. If you decide to have a crack at your own rendition Tweaker, the drum intro he has at the beginning is something I think you should try to incorporate as it gives you a feeling of "yea, let's go!". Cheerful, lively and fresh should be the focus of the tune as much as is possible since it is the introduction to the whole game.


    Yes, you're absolutely right - I have removed it from the list. I had been meaning to email him for his permission but I've been a bit busy. If he decides to give his permission I'll re-add it to the list.
     
  5. Athelstone

    Athelstone

    Oldbie Oldbie
    Thanks nineko, got it :(

    Oh yes, I love this! In my opinion it is very nearly perfect - I love the echos, it really gives you a feeling of being in a cave. I think some of the background ambient chords need to be a bit more pronounced (I'll try to explain that a bit better soon). We need a perma link for that too so I can add it to the list in the mean time.
     
  6. Moogle!

    Moogle!

    Member Member
    225
    0
    0
    I'll try contacting him on OCR, if you're still wanting to use the song.
     
  7. Tweaker

    Tweaker

    Misfits
    12,389
    0
    0
    The file not working may be a result of your browser caching the 404 page while it was uploading. If you do a hard refresh (ctrl+F5), it should work just fine.

    I'll get started on Emerald Hill. In addition, I've talked to DarkeSword, and he may also be willing to help out on the music front. Stay tuned! =P
     
  8. Athelstone

    Athelstone

    Oldbie Oldbie
    Shit, edited your post by accident Tweaker, sorry X_X still trying to get used to this. If you could re-add what you said that would be grand

    But thanks, the link is working now.

    That would be great. Yes, I think we do, it's a really brilliant rendition.
     
  9. Moogle!

    Moogle!

    Member Member
    225
    0
    0
    He's signed on to his IM. I've asked him but he hasn't said anything yet. Here's hoping.
     
  10. Moogle!

    Moogle!

    Member Member
    225
    0
    0
    Sorry to double post, but we are go for Bluest Sky. Yaay!

    What's better, he says he might be interested in redoing it. Contact him through email. Be polite. Don't spam and troll, and all that.

    Tim At TimSheehy dot com.
     
  11. Athelstone

    Athelstone

    Oldbie Oldbie
    Awesome news Moogle, thanks. I'll add his current version to the list and contact him tomorrow.
     
  12. BlazeHedgehog

    BlazeHedgehog

    A "Community Enigma"? Oldbie
    1,447
    1
    18
    I remember being on speaking terms with Kaijin when he did BluestSky. He was kind of a jerk but eventually I got over it and as I recall we parted on okay terms. I remember when he finished BluestSky he said he had me in mind while he was doing it; as far as I remember I was one of the only Sonic fans he had contact with at the time.

    None of this matters in regards to Sonic 2 HD or the song, just a bit of bragging, if you can even call it that. :P
     
  13. Moogle!

    Moogle!

    Member Member
    225
    0
    0
    Hey, I just IMed the guy out of the blue.


    Seemed realy nice.
     
  14. Tweaker

    Tweaker

    Misfits
    12,389
    0
    0
    Emerald Hill is done! Get it here. :(
     
  15. Donnyku

    Donnyku

    yay Oldbie
    1,337
    0
    16
    Pennsylvania
    Wedding Planning
    That bass is PERFECT
     
  16. BlazeHedgehog

    BlazeHedgehog

    A "Community Enigma"? Oldbie
    1,447
    1
    18
    Yeah, that's kind of why I said "I got over it". I don't think he was really a jerk, but I was young and stupid and things got out of hand. As I said, we eventually put it aside and we parted on well enough terms.
     
  17. Moogle!

    Moogle!

    Member Member
    225
    0
    0
    Bandwidth Exceeded.
     
  18. Athelstone

    Athelstone

    Oldbie Oldbie
    Very nice Emerald Hill Tweaker, though I think Cinossu's rendition is currently much more suitable for the project. I think the trumpets and chimes he uses really celebrates the lively nature of the zone whereas the leading instrument you are using has too much of a squishy sounding effect. I also much prefer the drums Cinossu is using as they really give the tune a sense of rapidity. I do not think the background ambience in yours (the choir-like sounds) fits as it sounds to me a little too mystical for this zone.

    Thank you very much for doing your rendition though, it is greatly appreciated as I wanted to compare it with Cinossu's as I wasn't sure why it didn't sound perfectly suitable to me. This has greatly helped me get a better sense of a couple of improvements that need to be added to Cinossu's which I shall post momentarily. (Edit: Updated first post of thread with suggestions for Cinossu Emerald Hill)
     
  19. Tweaker

    Tweaker

    Misfits
    12,389
    0
    0
    Are you serious? His Emerald Hill is extremely plain, has no kick, uses extremely pitchy sounds, and has no personality. I can't get into the beat nor the melody while listening to it, because it has numerous flaws and generic sounds in comparison to the original. I used lots of synthy instruments in order the capture the upbeat feel that the original song had. One deterring flaw I can name out of his rendition right off the bat is the lack of support on the lead, where in the original it used two channels with one an octave above the other.

    Shit like this is why I don't like to contribute to public projects. Whenever I capture the soul of a song, it's apparently not good enough because it doesn't have a orchestral masterpiece for a lead instrument.
     
  20. Athelstone

    Athelstone

    Oldbie Oldbie
    Just to clarify, Cinossu's version is the one I'm listening to that he has hosted here;
    http://blazemp3.sepwich.com/sonic2remaster...rald%20Hill.mp3

    This issue needs further feedback from the community, but your services are most definitely needed and valued for this project.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.