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Knuckles in Sonic 1 - Rev 01

Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by Stealth, Sep 12, 2005.

  1. Neo Majin

    Neo Majin

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    Well, the brown spots on the shoes might count since the Knuckles Sprite, I'm guessing, wasn't completely recolored there, but only if you're being way too picky on an excellent hack...
     
  2. Ultima

    Ultima

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    It's costructive criticism... I'd be happy for people to point out stuff like this in my hacks :P
     
  3. Bane King

    Bane King

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    THANK YOU

    The game is awsome but I was just informing what might need looking at if there was let's say...I don't know...an update?
     
  4. Quickman

    Quickman

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    omg porjcet
    The brown spots are actually subliminal advertising to try and get you to use SonED2 and LIKE IT.
     
  5. Stealth

    Stealth

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    Sonic Mania, HCGE, Sonic Megamix, SonED2, [...]
    So much for trying to be polite.

    I am not open to "suggestion". If it's not enough that I went back and updated this once because of the tile limit, and spent spent more time adding extra substance that I didn't actually have to, that's just tough shit. I went through too much grief with this NOT to be satisfied with it now, and I was hoping that I had made it perfectly clear that I wanted to remain happy. I don't suppose subtlety is really the way to go, though, considering that anyone can at any time become part of the audience. I am a very tired person and I have enough trouble being satisfied with anything I do without people just sitting around LOOKING for any little problem and picking nits when I actually do something right.

    I didn't ask for a tester. I said "here is a nice gift for you, enjoy!"

    I did not modify the screen panning code, and it's not affected by debug mode. Sonic 1 and Knuckles behaves in the same way as Sonic 1, I have been able to reproduce this "error" in Sonic 1. Debug is prone to cause "errors" anyway because you can use it to do things you're not intended to do in normal gameplay (such as fiddling with the screen boundaries)

    I don't know what you mean by "touch sensitive", considering the buttons on a genesis pad are either on or off, nothing in-between. Knuckles behaves the exact same way as in Sonic 2 and Knuckles, which is nearly identical to Sonic and Knuckles. I can't reproduce this problem. The only times I'm unable to perform a quick spindash are in the frame IMMEDIATELY following the landing froma jump, during landing from gliding, and when I become aware after-the-fact that the jump key went through before the duck key. The jump landing is an "issue" also present in Sonic 2 and Sonic 3 (and knuckles), and the glide landing "issue" is also present in Sonic 2 and Knuckles

    Yes, they are tedious, but no, they are entirely authentic. If really you want people to think you've done your homework, maybe you should try actually doing it

    There are several of those, that one just happens to be the easiest to notice. Congratulations for stating the obvious. Those invisible barriers prevent one ride-on sprite from dragging the player into walls, which are not tested for collision while riding a moving sprite. The invisible barriers automatically force the player to the nearest side (as with all totally solid sprites), and if there's another solid sprite in the way, the player is killed. The pushing pushes the player off the wall when climbing over a ledge, but removing the sprite will cause the bridge below to drag the player into the wall. The lesser of two evils would appear to be leaving it in place to avoid the player being taken inside the wall, as was the designer's intention

    Those spots are a normal part of the sprite. I don't like them any more than you do, but they were left in-tact because that's the way it was in the Sonic and Knuckles release

    The "recolor" was based on the table method used in Sonic 2 and Knuckles, in which the original Sonic and Knuckles sprites were used, but filtered through a table to use different color indexes so that it'd stand a smaller chance of screwing up Sonic 2's colors. A new filter was created to directly translate one palette index value to another in the same manner and applied to the data before it was stored in Sonic 1. That part of the sprite just happens to use the same index/color as the darkest parts of Knuckles, and that color appears because it is the nearest available color to the original

    That made little-to-no sense. If you're talking about the instance where you're able to walk on air, and if you happen to travel up/down a hill, you'll continue moving in the same diagonal direction, then I don't know how you triggered it in GHZ, but it only ever happens when screwing around in debug mode and causing a certain flag not to be set properly by fiddling with certain ride-on sprites. This would have to do with when those sprites themselves set/unset the flag that determines whether the player is standing on a solid sprite or not (and how that's affected by entering debug mode), and certainly nothing to constitute calling it something like "Wing Fortress syndrome". I also seem to have corrected that "problem" in most instances anyway, because I can't seem to reproduce it anywhere, especially not in GHZ. Though, since it's apparantly happened again, there must be some rare exception. Again, debug is not normal gameplay and WILL cause "errors" because you're simply not supposed to do things it will let you do. Also, again, Knuckles behaves exactly as in Sonic 2 and Knuckles because that is the code that is being used, so if it somehow did have something to do with the player character, then they did NOT "fix" "Wing Fortress Syndrome"

    Which is due to the nature of totally solid sprites, as described above.

    Ok, let's.

    The fix to keep Knuckles from dying at the bottom of the screen is a test that is performed ONLY during the test for a player's death in a "bottomless pit". It does not affect the code that tests for screen boundaries, as evidenced by the fact that this can also happen in the normal Sonic 1. Check it out with your beloved debug. I also did not make any level layout changes that weren't intended to remove impasses created by Knuckles' small jump height. Actual level layout changes weren't made for Sonic 2 and Knuckles, and there is no invisible barrier that would stop a real Knuckles from climbing that wall, nor would anyone build an infinitely high wall in such a place, or an above overhang.

    The "barrier" is a piece of solid level layout, so Knuckles will climb it just as any other solid level layout. Why not ask why Knuckles can climb any other level layout area without problems, including thick metals, and even things such as the rotating chain cylinders in Flying Battery (which he should technically rotate around, even though he hangs in one place and can climb straight up and down while it continues to rotate), while not being able to climb on solid sprites that LOOK like the rest of the level layout?

    That's absolutely correct, it's entirely unimportant.

    The following images are beyond the apparant per-post limit of the board, so they will only be URLs

    Yes, my master. It is completely up to some arbitrary person who just happens to come across a finished project like this to decide what "should" be done.

    The GHZ image is also accessible by Sonic by doing a nicely-timed jump from the up-hill slope just below after having fallen off the cliff to the left, landing directly at the top of the curve and spinning. Totally accessible, yet no monitor.

    The decision NOT to modify level/sprite layout that didn't hinder progression was made conciously and in the interest of creating strictly Sonic 1 with Knuckles in it. Deal with it.

    Way to go once again finding the easiest of multiple occurances. See the above statement about level layout

    I can't reproduce this without using debug and a trick that also works in Sonic 1. By moving the player as far left in the level as possible and exiting debug while holding left, he will be forced to the end of the level because his position wraps around the level, having been allowed to move beyond 0 because he has already passed the barrier preventing him from moving off the left of the screen in normal gameplay. The use of debug invalidates it as a "bug", and yes, it is again very unimportant.




    I've spent quite a bit of time looking into this crap and putting thought into this response, and when I started, you had no other posts on this messageboard that weren't in this thread, and the ones you've posted just now are only about how you can't use SonED2 because you can't read and comprehend documentation. That gives me the impression that you were using my work as leverage to try and get accepted into full membership here by trying to point out my "flaws", and obviously doing a quick, poor, under-researched and under-thought job of it. I sincerely hope that you quickly fall into "Pending Approval" and remain there.
     
  6. Tweaker

    Tweaker

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    OH GREAT, YOU PISSED OFF STEALTH. GOOD JOB DUMBASS.

    I thought you would take the tme to point out bugs with his fucking hack, not Sonic 1 tself. Because of this, you truly fail.

    Hay, point at the newbie and laugh.
     
  7. stormislandgal

    stormislandgal

    It's not a phase! Tech Member
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    *points and laughs*
    .... Yeah, you should have tested if these bug were in Sonic 1 first...
     
  8. Bane King

    Bane King

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    Yeah...this is entirely not where this was suppose to go.
    I guess I asked for this one though.


    Don't worry. I won't be blessing you with my uneducated ass any more but I will leave you with this. The Wing Fortess syndrom happens in sonic 2 without debug and THAT I know.
     
  9. Hez

    Hez

    Oldbie
    go home


    .....Tails in Sonic 1 PLZ
     
  10. LOst

    LOst

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    Oh, pissing off Stealth is not a good idea. I just needed to say that.
     
  11. Tweaker

    Tweaker

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    Remember what happened last time he was pissed? Bye bye SSRG.
     
  12. Stealth

    Stealth

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    Was that really appropriate?
     
  13. LOst

    LOst

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    No it wasn't. And you are doing all rights to defent Knuckles in Sonic 1. I am on your side.
     
  14. Tweaker

    Tweaker

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    It was a joke. Live a little.

    omg suckup lawlz
     
  15. Stealth

    Stealth

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    :P
     
  16. Hez

    Hez

    Oldbie
    The Tails in sonic 1 wasn't though......
     
  17. LocalH

    LocalH

    roxoring your soxors Tech Member
    OMFG FORUM DRAMA

    Yeah, KiS1 is Stealth's hack, so it's his decision how things are done in the proper "Knuckles in Sonic 1" ROM. If you don't like it, either fix what you perceive to be a problem yourself and release a patch to the existing ROM (and it'd be nice to ask permission first, as a common courtesy, and then if he doesn't want it distributed then you can still privately enjoy your version of it), or live with what Stealth released and enjoy it as he made it.
     
  18. MathUser

    MathUser

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    Well, I downloaded this patch some time ago and have to say I'm very impressed. I'm a bit of a rom hacker also but nowhere near the same level as the author of this hack. I can imagine it took many hours to put this together.
     
  19. Tweaker

    Tweaker

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    Hey, are you the same hiro from ACMLM's board?
     
  20. Pegasus124

    Pegasus124

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    I downloaded this hack back in september and I have to say it was a great experience playing as Knuckles in Sonic 1, which is most likely how I got the idea to replace Sonic with Tails in Sonic CD in the first place. :D

    But an excellent hack/game, none-of-the-less. :rolleyes: