Sonic 3 Complete

Hi folks. Still alive.

I've been working on little bits on and off, but overall, not a huge amount has changed since the last release at this point. There are some minor tweaks and features in place, and a few bugfixes here and there (including two original-game issues that have been bothering me for a long time: the weird music hitch and palette flash when the waterline scrolls into view quickly, and a potential sound-related hang around the waterline that was reported a few times in CNZ) and some pretty nice spritey stuff. I also seem to have accidentally fixed that thing where smashing too many monitors in debug would corrupt RAM and reset you into the wrong game, which is a nice bonus. Oh, and I finally fixed that S2-3 issue I've never really seen anyone complain about where spindashing right next to a monitor will uncurl you after it smashes (which turns out pretty definitely to be an oversight, in spite of looking specific enough to maybe have been deliberate).

So there should be another release at some point, but I wouldn't expect it to be particularly soon or particularly game-changing compared to the previous couple.

Obviously an "improvement" hack has a limited shelf life before the remaining possible relevant improvements reach a point of diminishing returns in terms of work/time/reward ratio, and with FBZ done, I personally think we're beyond that mark. I'm (obviously) among the crowd that would love to have a "perfect" Sonic 3, but we have to accept that not everything can be perfected with a limited amount of time and skill and obviously limited hardware, but also the need, with a project like this, to keep the original game fundamentally stable and not to introduce new bugs or coincidentally different behaviour where possible. That has always been the way I've tried to work, and I think it's that focus on stability and polish that has made the hack successful rather than any of the particular changes themselves.

In that sense, I hope what's out there is sufficient - I think, with the latest version, we managed to put something out there that really covers the vast majority of the bases in terms of what a complete (MD-bound) Sonic 3 should be, without introducing any notable problems I'm aware of that the original didn't also have. So I hope nobody is desperately refreshing the Wiki page in search of something that it just wouldn't be any good without, because unfortunately, it's not going to suddenly change in the very near future!

When I read that back, it sounds like it's all over, but that isn't really what I intend - as I say, there are things that are done, things I intend to do, and those should all get out there at some point. I guess I just want to manage any expectations that I've been chained to a desk doing some huge update that should be here any day now - nothing huge, nothing soon, that's really the point.

Well, now I've dampened spirits, let's answer a few questions. I do want to reiterate one thing - I'm sorry if I don't always respond to questions here or by e-mail quickly or at all (and if I skipped responding again here). I've said before that I don't generally respond to feature and bugfix requests, and that's for a few reasons. First and foremost, I don't always know how technically feasible something will be, or how much work would be involved, and the picture I have of that can change dramatically if I find a complication I wasn't aware of, or on the other hand, if I suddenly come to understand something that makes another thing much less complicated. Secondly, I often change my mind for all sorts of reasons - there are things I would have wanted to do at the beginning that I wouldn't do now (and that includes disagreeing with the odd default option here and there that remains in place for consistency), and there are suggestions I've ended up taking on board later that I initially didn't agree with. There are other reasons too, not least the fact that once I do start writing, I can't seem to stop (this post really wasn't meant to be an essay when I started it, you know). So don't think I am ignoring you! I do read things and consider them and I appreciate all suggestions and feedback. (I actually thought I was probably about done with what I wanted to do in 2009 when I first released it, and the interest and discussion that's come since has been a huge influence on continuing at all and the directions that were taken.)

Anyway:

There is at least one more where it's possible to do this, for what it's worth. You can also do that as Sonic by spindashing left and jumping in there. Basically there's just a plane switcher that's slightly too high, so you can get under it. It's a simple enough fix, I just hate object layout editing because I have to change up to four layouts to fix any one thing thanks to all the different versions (and also because the method to make Sonic 3 layouts for Knuckles is this idiot savant concoction I put together back in the days before the new disassembly where I was deliberately sticking to an unmodified Sonic 3 ROM, so it does all kinds of untidy in-place layout patching instead of just including working, converted layouts, and that really needs unpicking at some point to make the thing more manageable).

I can confirm that I am not theologically opposed to these ideas, though see all of the above regarding working principles and deliberately sparse answers to feedback. Both have been requested before; the former would certainly be nice, but I'm not desperately interested in the amount of extra headache needed for the latter - I actually asked if anyone wanted this when I first put the green sock fixes in, and so far, as I recall, two people in three years have expressed any desire, so the interest and effort checks aren't going too well on that one I'm afraid.

Yeeeeah, I have to admit this is kind of crappy, sorry.

The most requested feature by far from the last release in particular was more fine-grained options for some of this stuff, so I do hope to address that, and that in turn should address this. That said, what's clear from having seen a few videos of folks using the options menu is that it's already ridiculously confusing in terms of what all these things do, so I'm hoping my cunning plan will somewhat address both issues at once; even so, I think it's pretty clear we need to do some kind of online manual for the options menu too at some point.

To be fair though, you don't have to turn super, you can just make him fly while you're charging a peelout. What, you didn't actually want to be able to catch him, did you?

In general, I don't tend to reuse 3C beta content, other than where it just happens to really fill a gap in terms of making things more like the original Sonic 3, such as the Hidden Palace fight theme selection or the credits medley. You could argue that all of Sonic 3 is a beta of S3&K, but I think there's a big difference between something that was signed off for release and the WIP stuff in between.

Of course, by that logic, we have no business moving Flying Battery either, so you know. I am flighty and unpredictable, which is why talking a lot about what I intend or don't intend can be a bit fruitless!

That's pretty interesting actually, I never spotted that side effect. The "Sonic 2" AI Tails simulation doesn't actually change as much as it should do be accurate; I only did a minimal amount of stuff to change things that obviously didn't look right, and I suspect the bit that's responsible here is the change (back) in how he lands from AI flight, as he wasn't hovering uselessly above slight puddles like his dumb(er)ass S2 self would without it.

I think your other points were addressed. I don't remember having fixed this one, but I've done some tweaking to level limits to fix some of these kinds of issues, and I will hopefully address this one too, assuming I haven't to date.

Yes, sorry, thanks for your files - haven't done anything with them yet, but I would like to look at it and play with things at some point.

Yeah, this original S3&K issue has come up a few times - I actually worried myself when I first noticed it as I assumed it was something I'd broken! As I recall, it's because the space assigned for mappings in VRAM overwrites the last tile of the HUD, so you have some mappings data sneaking into the corner. On the face of it, that's a very easy fix, but it's also one that makes me a bit queasy in terms of how easy it would be to introduce another subtle bug in one place or another, depending on the method.

I've never really entered the hacking contest for a couple of reasons. Most importantly, working towards a specific time has never really worked out for me, particularly given that, as I mentioned before, one of the most important features of this hack is that it's solid and not too rushed, even if unspectacular as a result. That unspectacular factor also kind of leads into the other reason, which is that I can never really think of a trophy this thing should be in the running for! I've always thought the hacking contest tends to favour original work much more than just tightening some nuts and bolts like S3C does. And that's fine, by the way - you don't do something like this to win best of show, and I love seeing some of the cool stuff people come up with, which really lends itself better to showing off than "Hey look, it's Sonic 3 & Knuckles, but that one frame glitch where the palette went wrong didn't happen".

 

Might do an option for this at some point, yeah - would be a nice bit of nostalgia.

I thought I'd fixed all those sort of issues, but it might not be fixed in any released version. I bubble bounced successfully into the cannon in my development version, so if that's a consistent problem, then it has been fixed.

Casual mode already prevents timer-related deaths (and consequently removes the 500K time bonus for finishing at 9:59); in the future, I want to split up the casual options a bit, so this might yet end up being a separate option.

I'm definitely interested in this, and I like what you've done in the TGC S3 video thread. Such a significant change would have to be optional, which means I'd have to split the Sonic and Tails patches; this involves some extra complications I need to resolve at some point anyway. But most importantly, my graphics guys seem to have died, and I just don't have the patience to build all the player sprite mappings! If you're handy with SonMapEd or similar, or know someone with those skills, I'd be happy to take an alternative set of graphics of sufficient quality; as a general rule of thumb, if it can be dropped into the Git S3&K disassembly and builds OK, I'll be able to take it. I can even (privately) supply our current tidied up and improved Tails files as a starting point or reference if you take it that far.