Sonic 3 Complete

Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by Tiddles, Dec 25, 2009.

  1. RetroKoH

    RetroKoH

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    Fair enough... it just felt like to me they had intended for it to be when the player used the dash technique with the shield. Simply jumping into the wall, especially with Tails... feels so odd...
     
  2. flamewing

    flamewing

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    This being well known or not depends on who you talk to: speedrunners all know this, as it comes in play at the end of Angel Island 1/start of Angel Island 2: they ditch a fire shield in favor of a bubble shield at the end of Angel Island 1 so they don't accidentally break the wall leading to the first rings in Angel Island 2. But yeah, I suppose one could argue it either way.
     
  3. Blastfrog

    Blastfrog

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    I was wondering about 2P mode. Knuckles used Sonic's move set despite having unused climbing and gliding sprites. I imagine this was a result of Knuckles' code not being ready by the time the original S3 shipped and they neglected to update it in S3K. Players are able to both play as the same character, so both players could play as Sonic if they still wanted the same gameplay as playing as Sonic and Knuckles in vanilla.

    Of course, few people care about 2P mode (I know I don't) but I thought it was something worth bringing up. Obviously as a super-low priority thing, but still.
     
  4. RetroKoH

    RetroKoH

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    It's not so much, identical movesets, as much as it is they are exactly the same object. Tiddles has stated that 2P was low low low priority right now.
     
  5. Tiddles

    Tiddles

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    It is on the bucket list, but it always seems like a drop in the ocean of what's needed to make 2P not feel horrible. For what it's worth, they do at least have different speed/acceleration/traction to differentiate them.
     
  6. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    Just gotta say, playing this game on a flash cart on my actual Genesis? It just feels so damn right.

    Sonic 2 sprites forever!
     
  7. AkumaYin

    AkumaYin

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    I recently got a Mega EverDrive and a Genesis Model 1, so I should really try that sometime.
     
  8. Techokami

    Techokami

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    Found a funny little bug. So at the end of Mushroom Hill/Valley, we have a cutscene with Sonic looking up at Flying Battery.
    [​IMG]

    Now, the cutscene control input has up constantly held. Even when Sonic jumps up to grab the airship. But I turned on the Super Peel-Out move. It plays the rev sound and...
    [​IMG]
    At least it then manages to go to Flying Battery afterwards.
     
  9. Glitching through the moving lava using super transformation at a certain section in Lave Reef Zone 1 cause the game to not load Zone 2 after killing the boss. Instead, you explore the Zone 1 loopback. With some help from Tails you can explore a glitched working zone going backwards. At the point where you reach the moving lava object, the game glitches in several ways depending on what you do.

    The glitch video can be seen here:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=m1atT6qrRLY#t=256

    I executed the "Mega Glitch" in real hardware using Sonic 3 & Knuckles (it is very hard to do) and the maximum effect I achieved was the sprite glitch after auto reset plus slowdown. But I don't think it was the game running in pal mode as the video poster says in comments.

    Sonic 3 Complete glitched almost the same way, but I couldn't reproduce the sprite glitch nor slowdown. Anyway, why glitching through the Lava causes such a breakdown in the game? Maybe it should be fixed in future versions.
     
  10. Tiddles

    Tiddles

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    Techokami: please could you confirm the version number from the options menu? I'm sure I remember fixing this and I think it was before the last public release.

    joyeux: without getting too detailed, the rising and falling lava section enables a different set of background handling code to display the lava (same as the rising sand in SOZ2 - note you never see the level background in either of these sections). By falling through the lava, you skip the trigger to return this to normal. However, only the normal background event procedures contain any code to check for the act switch and load LRZ2's data. That's why going back and exiting that section normally causes the act 2 data to try to load - as soon as the normal background events kick in again, they see the act switch flag and immediately try to run the transition. The cheapest fix is probably to have the boss reset the background event counter. Still, I may or may not fix it - I don't want to take all the entertaining glitches out, particularly since this one requires such a specific and deliberate invocation.

    The sprite glitching/slowdown is indeed "PAL mode" by the way - to clarify, the console's mode itself is not changed, but a state flag within RAM that's set at bootup if the console's running at 50Hz gets set (along with all sorts of RAM being corrupted - including, possibly, the player selection value, which is how ORKAL gets to be "Blue Knuckles" in his video). This results in different timing being applied that is completely wrong for 60Hz, which is why you see all the bad things you do. That's why the music is trying to play faster for instance - it's trying to compensate for the console speed.

    There's no particular fix in place in S3C to stop that particular issue alone - as it's RAM corruption, there could be all kinds of coincidental reasons why different variables are corrupted in different ways. It's ultimately the same as the issue where smashing a bunch of super monitors can glitch you from S3&K into S&K - the RAM flag for which version should be running gets damaged. That glitch also tends to corrupt the emerald array, but you don't tend to see it since starting the game from the S&K title screen resets the emerald state.
     
  11. Tiddles, thank so much for the very informative post. I thought it was not using PAL mode because it speeds up for some seconds. Probably ram issues when activating the glitch. Most times the game auto reset, everything goes back to normal. I couldn't replicate the Blue Knuckles glitch.

    I agree this is a very fun glitch, but I think it could compromise the entire journey if someone by chance activates the Hyper Sonic before losing rings in the lava, making it impossible to finish the level. Well, not that it ever happened with me.

    Also, nothing that compromises the quality of your hack, which is my definitive version of Sonic 3&SK. Pointed that out just for the sake of completion in finding bugs.
     
  12. redquebec

    redquebec

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    A quick question Tiddles, can you share your bucket list for us all, and what have been done so far since the last release? :) I do realize that S3C will prorgess only with your will, and I wont ask for anything. We are here many fans of S3C, and I think I can safely say we all be interested in knowing your progress. :) Thanks in advance.
     
  13. Techokami

    Techokami

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    ...there's a newer version? WHOOPS
     
  14. DM Ashura

    DM Ashura

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    Please forgive me if this has been asked before.

    Has anybody suggested making a Super Tails / Hyper Tails sort of switch, where Super Tails is just yellow and glows, and Hyper Tails has the Flickies?
     
  15. Knucklez

    Knucklez

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    It's been mentioned before but Tails only has a Super form after collecting both sets of Emeralds. A hyper form would defeat the purpose of Tails being the more inferior (in terms of power) character.
     
  16. Just dropping an idea, I thought it could be interesting:
    When entering a Special Stage, why not select a random level from Blue Sphere? That'd add something new every time and make things harder to get the 14 emeralds.
    Also, it'd give all those blue sphere levels some sort of sense.
    I don't know how hard that would be to implement...
     
  17. Felik

    Felik

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    Not a big fan of that idea due to a number of reasons BUT it'd be an interesting idea to make you enter a random special sage when you get all 7 emeralds before Mushroom Hill and after collecting all 14 emeralds. Not sure what prize would be good for finishing those extra special stages though.
     
  18. DigitalDuck

    DigitalDuck

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    The standard solution in the past has been replacing the emerald with an extra life.

    Dunno why you'd need an extra life in S3K, but whatever.
     
  19. RetroKoH

    RetroKoH

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    Because you can never have enough...?

    Well, at least that's what they were thinking back then, anyway. Why not have just a giant ring of some kind at the end and get a 50000 pt bonus (an extra life anyway)...
    But then IDK who plays them for score besides me anyway. LOL
     
  20. DigitalDuck

    DigitalDuck

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    You get a 50000 pt bonus for a perfect, which already makes them like 2/3 of the points you score in a game.

    Alternatively:

    Normally collecting a giant ring with all the emeralds gives you 50 rings - why not just keep that, but make it the prize for beating the special stage?