Sonic Generations Megathread

So, since you guys have been talking about both the Boost and Grinding and their place in this game, I thought maybe we should also include the Homing Attack, as it's also a modern move that a lot of people want gone (myself not included) :v:

So, it's obvious that Modern Sonic will have his Unleashed/Colors homing attack, but let's talk about Classic Sonic.

Now, if they give C. Sonic 3D areas to run around, that means he will have to eventually fight badniks in 3D, which means that without assitance (HA or otherwise) you are bound to miss a target a lot. (Try playing through Color's Tropical Resort and Sweet Mountain without using the homing attack)

Now, I've been thinking, maybe there's a way for them to give you more precision when jump attacking enemies in 3D without using the HA, I'll use Portal as an example:
In Portal there's this option called "Portal Funnel" that makes the game steer you slightly towards a portal so you don't accidentally hit the side when going through one, this is very useful when you want to get momentum with an infinite fall (portal above and below you) or a double fling, however this doesn't automatically place you inline with a portal, you still need to steer yourself towards the portal for the funneling to kick in, it's just an assistance.

My idea is to have a similar option in Generations so you can reliably hit a chain of enemies as Classic Sonic while still keeping control of him, basically, pressing the HA button (if they go for a similar control scheme to Unleashed HD) instead of doing a Homing Attack the game will steer you slightly towards the locked enemy, giving you extra precision but ultimately leaving you with the choice and burden of skill to do the bounce chain.



Or they could give you a 3D Blast Yellow Shield every time there's an enemy chain :specialed:

 

That's what I was thinking as well, and I'd like to see how that'd playout in an actual game. I'm sure SEGA will just give him a homing attack, but we'll see what develops.

 

My own opinion on rails and grinding is that it's like any other gimmick (I'm talking about the level kind, not the game premise kind). If you are going to have it, it's important to use it sparingly, mix it up by using it in conjunction with other gimmicks, and make sure it's as interactive as possible. In a Sonic game, allowing the player to go into autopilot for more than 5-10 seconds is one of the worst things you can do... in my opinion anyway.

 

I see three things constraining your ability to just hit enemies with a jump in Sonic Colors' 3D sections:

1. The control
2. The camera
3. The speed (see #1)

Try hitting an enemy with just a jump in Sonic Adventure, and you should see what I mean.

The Portal funnel idea seems viable, but only if you don't have to press a button to get it to kick in. After all, you didn't have to press a button to activate the Portal funnel. The less you notice it, the better.

Or they could get rid of enemy chains altogether and build better stages instead. :specialed: That's another thing: enough with the bottomless pits underneath enemy chains.

Personally, I'd like for Classic Sonic to just have the Insta-Shield instead of the homing attack. This way, pressing the [Jump] button will extend his attack radius and make it easier to hit any enemy when he doesn't have a shield power-up. Also, it could give Sonic an little extra bounce and provide for mad score bonuses if you bounce off several enemies using the insta-shield each time. Instead of having an HA chain, you could have an Insta-Shield Bounce chain (TO BE USED SPARINGLY). It'll force the designers to design around THAT move instead of the homing attack, which I'm getting rather bored of. It's more how the games are designed around the homing attack that I have a problem with.

 

Seeing as this thread is 99% speculatiion 1.5% observation, I'll offer a brainfart I had regarding what I would like from classic sonic vs modern sonics' gameplay.

After seeng the thread about S3K Tails Only areas, I thought it was a cool feature that each character has their own optional path to take through some levels including areas that take advantage of their ability/gimmics (knuckles only areas,homing attack chains) as this further deepened the experience for me.

As of recently the level design has been lacking regarding 3d unleashed/colours sonic in terms of branching pathways for me, and I've been seeing all too often boxed off branching pathways which all point to a rail...box...rails..(race)...Goal and for me it takes away from the feeling of exploration, with the reward of what felt like finding the End sign in the old games (S3K in particular obviously), in comparison to being thrusted into the goal ring in sonics most recent incarnations(colours wii/unleashed), not to say I dislike the games, its just something that bugs me.

Phew... another thing

Why is it that sega look so faaar back (sonic 1) when returning to its "roots", and they completely overlook the strides forward they took during the Sonic 3/Sonic & Knuckles era in terms of the sonic formula...what makes Sonic. Sonic.

Considering the nature of Generations I get the impression that instead of creating new level objects, they could reuse older ideas to give oldschool gimmics a moden day twist, like using the "item ballons"?
While modern sonic can fall through them, classic sonic could bounce over them like the CNZ ballons while still collecting the item, to contrast the difference between M.Sonics lanky frame to M.Classic Sonics small, chubby and aparentlly bouncy frame and add a new dimention/depth to the gameplay for the gamer...with a little fan service.

Anyone else had any ideas related to previous items, Badniks etc with a way to bring something new to the Series?...Just me?...Okay then.

THE MODEL!... I don't see what all the fuss is about.

I can deal with the new Classic Sonic model, as the pure nostalgia and childlike euphoria of seeing Classic Sonic flip out from behind M.Sonic has made me love him unconditionally purely for his cuteness and fan service; Iris,Eyelids even down to the soles of his shoes, I can even forgive the assface positioning on the "boxart" because sega is FINALLY Listening to the fanbase.
But on the otherhand, Sonic Team must want the game to appeal to everyone, not just the people who know why sonics face looks funny on the box, so I HOPE we don't see that box on shelves in any way whatsoever but we havent seen any gameplay yet have we?

See you next year :P

 

Classic Sonic's gameplay should be the same as Modern Sonic's, but excluding homing attack and rail grinding segments of the levels. They should both have completely different level lay-outs to support each move-set.

 

I think it's possible to have each move serve it's own purpose and have a time and a place to use either. For example: Spin dash can be used to interact with level gimmicks like the Lava Reef's spindash elevator. As well as be more effective as an offensive attack than the boost on stronger enemies/bosses. Basically the spindash would serve as a quick burst of speed when you don't have your boost built up, or used for more offensive situations. While the boost is more of a 'fuck it' button that you can use to get yourself out of tight spots really quickly and out of harms way. The boost can be used to take out enemies, but ideally it would only be the weaker ones/breakable obstacles. You'd still need the spindash to break through weak walls and such.

If you incorporate those two moves like that in some form, then you'd have a pretty damn fun Sonic game that makes the player actually think about what they're doing.

On topic: Classic Sonic should really have an insta shield attack instead of homing. Instead of homing in on the enemies, it merely expands your attack radius and makes hitting targets easier and less frustrating, and removes the need to make badniks the size of Texas.

 

If I remember correctly all the games that had the Insta-shield only allowed you to do one per jump, meaning you could only use it on the first enemy and nothing else, of course they could extend it to one per bounce if wanted to.

And by enemy chains I mean it more like destroying several enemies in the same area in one bounce, instead of enemies hovering over bottomless pits, which was perfectly doable on the Genesis games but far more difficult on the 3D games.

I've actually tried doing HA-less runs on Sonic Adventure, and it's damn near impossible to hit 2 enemies with the same jump, Sonic loses all momentum after a jump and the bounce height is too small to try and steer yourself into the next.

I thought of it being automatic, but the game might accidentally funnel you towards an enemy when you just want to get to another platform, which would be very annoying and is the same issue Colors has with the HA being mapped to the same button as the double jump.



And, as for this going off-topic...

Honestly, there's not much else to say about Classic Sonic's model, we've already discussed about the Japanese and American influences, on how it does or does not fit within a 3D world and how it does or does not kick Modern Sonic's ass. This thread won't be going anywhere else until SEGA releases more information, which might happen at E3 this year, about 3 weeks from now.

 

Instant shield.

 

Awkward as, and it's very difficult to do anything after you've hit your target. That's the whole reason the added the HA to SA1- because you couldn't easily bop from one thing to another without slowing down in 3D. I'm totally for giving C.Sonic a short range, reticule-less HA/guided jump. Any playable character in a 3D Sonic game should have it really.

 

Where's the joy of destroying enemies if you can't bounce off them and make a combo (again, regular bounce chains not HA-like chains)

 

You guys are thinking about this too hard. The easiest way to ultimately end homing attack is to simply make the Badniks bigger. Larger hitboxes make for easier targets to bounce off of. Besides, Mario has always been able to bounce from Goomba to Goomba even in the 3D Mario's. Why can't Sonic bounce off of Badniks?

 

Because Mario isn't about speed - bouncing from enemy to enemy in 3D requires a whole lot precision and control maneuver than on a 2D game - precision that slows you down a lot and we know that slowing down doesn't go well with Sonic, which is about going fast. Plus bouncing from Goomba to Goomba in 3D Mario games isn't as easy as you say at all. The maximum I could was to stomp four/five goombas with one jump, and I was only able to do it because you are propelled a bit forward after jumping on one, and the Goombas were aligned so that you could bump on them by barely tilting the control stick, so I was able to stomp on three more Goombas that were standing still. Not moving or anything, just standing still, aligned almost perfectly so that I could do that. Imagine other enemies then, that moves around, spins, and other sorts of movement behaviors, how it'd be obnoxious to destroy them without the Homing Attack. Bouncing from enemy to enemy in 3D isn't as easy as you say at all, Nintendo and Shigeru Miyamoto said themselves that 3D platforming has never felt right because of that. I barely defeat enemies on Super Mario Galaxy by jumping because of that - I do it almost all of the times by just spinning.

So yes, I feel like trying to give a "classic alternative" to the Homing Attack or taking it out for Classic Sonic just because he's classic is just stupid imo. You can make it not have the blue trail, make the attack and aim noises feel more classic-ish - those would be nice details, but taking it out, I don't think that would work.

 

I disagree. The homing attack isn't necessary, the problem is strictly a matter of depth perception messing with your ability to tell where you are in terms of surge. Just whip out one of those 'often annoying but usually helpful' clingy effects like from Infamous with it's building climbing parkour stuff. If it's only applied to targeting enemies, it shouldn't really jack you up as long as the level design doesn't make it do exactly that.

 

I believe SEGA is going to take a different approach. Perhaps Classic Sonic will just be like a 2D Mode. Both of them will share the same stages, while Classic Sonic's levels will be 2D rendition's of Modern Sonic's levels. Hopefully he won't be able to walk up walls this time...

 

I wonder if stereoscopic 3D would improve the gameplay of platform games...
With the added depth perception, maybe it would be much easier to correctly aim your jumps/attacks, removing the need for a homing attack or similar system.
Might not be the best option for Sonic games though, high speed + headache-inducing 3D sounds like asking for a wave of epilepsy attacks. :v:

 

The dude at Nintendo stated himself that many games such as Starfox 64 and Super Mario 64 could definitely benefit from stereoscopic 3D - being able to see how far you are from an enemy. It was in an Iwata Asks about the 3DS somewhere. They could introduce an effect in which the faster you go, the more 2D it is (sort of like real life, look down from a plane window while underneath the clouds, the ground looks almost completely flat). It will probably be something for Sonic 3DS, but not in Generations for now.

 

Brotip: if you don't want to use the stereoscopic features, turn the 3D slider down on your 3DS.

This is not anything to argue about. They left 3D optional for a reason because it may enhance the experience for some players and take away from it for others.

 

Not all the time. Going fast is definitely your special power, but the game should not constrict you to going at your maximum speed all or even most of the time. This is the biggest problem I have with Unleashed and some of the 3D sections from Colors: you are almost always just going at one speed—your top speed—down some narrow pathway or corridor. Stuff like the quick-stepping did make it a little more fun, but it doesn't beat the fun of exploring, scavenging, and platforming around a bit as well as going fast. Speed should be well measured in any given Sonic stage; a stage should neither be too fast too much of the time nor too slow for too much of the time, and each stage should change the speed-platforming formula up. A Sonic platformer's special gimmick is speed, but part of what makes a Sonic platformer fun is not boring your players with one gear of non-stop speed. A good 3D Sonic game should have more than two or three gears of speed for Sonic to achieve, and he shouldn't be expected to maintain them higher ones for much longer than the lower ones or the "middle gear".

By the way, making the badniks a little bigger isn't a bad idea either.

In that case, either of the Sonics' option for killing enemies shouldn't be limited to the homing attack. Why not have a ground-based attack like rolling? Instead of pressing down, you press a separate button than makes Sonic go into a fast roll and accomplishes the same thing as Mario's spin-attack. The faster you're going with it and the more declined the slope your running on is, the longer the roll will be sustained. You could even shoot off of a natural ramp and hit an midair enemy head on!

@DimensionWarped: For those of us who haven't played InFamous, could you explain this clingy effect?