Ya know what Sonic might need?

Sonic is about as basic as Mario is. They've both got a goal at the end of the stage that you must get to at all costs, some stuff to collect along the way, etc. The only thing different from Sonic and Mario is that Sonic's got special stages and more than one type of boss fight, and speed too, but apparently from what I've heard that's not as important. So, in all respects, Sonic should work well in 3D, and he did for awhile there.

Also, how's the sky up there? More importantly, how do you breed a horse with such tall legs? Sometimes I feel like slapping God in the face, can you tell him that while you're up there?

 

I agree with the people who say that some Sonic spirit is present in Ristar and Jazz Jackrabbit. The first one has a lot of features that remind of Sonic (the level cards at the beginning of each act, the same but remixed music for all the acts of a planet, the ski scene when arriving on Freon, etc.) and that even if the gameplay was completely different, mainly because it was made by the same team and it was the rival of Sonic in the mascot contest.

The second one, because of the speed of the main character, which is also an unnaturally coloured animal, catchy ambiant music (what Mario doesn't have in my opinion, even if it's better in the Galaxy series), mode-7-like special stages, etc.

Those two series would definitely make ideal substitutes for Sonic if they were returning, but that wouldn't mean that Sonic should disappear, because the three games have their own stories, and while having similarities, they could coexist with their own specificities. But, I'm not sure at all if it should be in 3D.

Jazz Jackrabbit 3D looked like way more boring to play than the 2D games, with huge and useless environments, weird aiming system, messy textures... for Sonic, the 3D games could be great if there were not all those scripted actions. I think Ristar can be a superb game in 3D, grabbing all the things you find to access different places, not necessarly linear stages but maybe closed ones with things to collect, like Mario or Banjo&Kazooie.

 

You know as well as I do that the Japs be satisfied until they develop a time machine and push Commodore Perry's men back into the sea.

 

If this ever comes out it might fit the bill like 50%

 

Pinball physics sez hai?

 

One of the differences I forgot to note.

I'm not saying Sonic and Mario are exactly the same, but I'm also not saying they're total opposites.

 

Yeah I get that. But the physics and the kind of obstacles you can create around them make Sonic's gameplay a little more complex.

 

Oh definitely. One of the things that I think really makes a good game are the combinations of the player physics combined with good level design. That's where Sonic, in my opinion, has the advantage. Most Mario levels are fairly linear and quite boring, but Sonic levels are much more than that.

 

Very true. But one thing I like about the level design in a lot of Mario levels is the kind of precision platforming it takes to complete them. If you could make levels that require such precision platforming in addition to the various stunts that require pinball physics to pull off, that'd be a pretty fucking solid gameplay experience in my eyes. Basically a fusion of of what makes both classic Sonic and Mario games difficult, I guess.

 

This, many times. The classic games are often just too easy. There's not much platforming that requires thought, and enemies pose almost no challenge. It tends to be the Special Stages that get me, with the exception of S3&K, in which they're quite trivial. That game overall is probably the easiest of them all IMO. And I certainly don't think of myself as particularly skilled, so it can't be that! :v: I will admit that Sonic 1 can be a dick, but that's probably because by the end of SYZ I've been worn down by those damned square blocks, and then LZ comes and finishes the job. Final Zone is a joke, though!

 

If they handled it like 3D Dot Game Heroes and made it as blatant as possible and presented it in a humorous manner it could work.

While the Advance games didn't live up to the Genesis originals, they were okay, but Socket is almost unplayable. At least in Advance games the boosters did what they were supposed too and the palettes weren't an eyesore. Actually some of the art and level themes in the portable games even reference Ristar.

Seconded. Runman is easily the most fun Sonic-like game I've played.

I thought that was based on Zool?

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention Fancy Pants Adventures is also pretty fun.

 

Runman is made up of the things I don't like about new Sonic games. It has a massive emphasis on time attack which can only be improved by memorizing the level.

 

I really enjoyed Sonic Rush but I know I'm in the minority around here, and here is one of the few places Sonic Rush is so widely disliked. I really like the time attack platformer concept but I understand it's not for everybody. I suppose you could still just play through the game without trying for medals, it would just be really easy.

Anyway, I haven't seen this posted yet. High Seas Havoc was another Sonic knock-off on the Genesis, but it's much slower and focuses on more precise platforming. It's not very good but it's more tolerable than Socket.

 

http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/301341
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/420606
http://www.bornegames.com/

You just can't dislike a classic like this one.

 

A lot of people mention "pinball physics" for 3D games.

Now on one end that could work... if Sonic games had similar extended development cycles to a Mario, a MGS, a Gran Turismo or any other high profile game.

But maybe 3D Sonic shouldn't be about the pinball physics. I'm sure we've all played pinball before, and what does the pinball do? It goes up and down, left and right. That's only two dimensions. Yeah, the ball can go "in and out" depending on the elevated rail or some other random feature in the pinball table, but imagine if the pinball could "in and out". How exactly would that be dealt with?

This is the issue when it comes to 3D Sonic and pinball physics. I just don't think that it would work... at least not in the scope of the way Sega does things. If Sega decided to give a Sonic game more than a year or 3 in development, then maybe they could figure something out that would be revolutionary, just like how Sonic was when he first debuted. With that, they'll have the initial framework to work with, and thus continue to use the pinball physics with slight modifications in the new games.

However, Sega's not going to give Sonic that kind of love and care in terms of the development cycle, so maybe 3D Sonic games should focus on something else... I'm not saying it should be "hold boost to win." I'm saying that we shouldn't expect Sonic to have pinball physics, and instead focus on the rest of the qualities that made Sonic cool back in the day. Honestly, I didn't really pay the pinball physics of the Genesis games much mind until I signed up to Retro and heard about it. And while they have obviously contributed heavily to Sonic's success in the past, it's not the end all reason as to why those were amazing games. And those other reasons why they were amazing games are more than enough for Sega to be able to pull off in 3D Sonic without taking some real, serious time to getting the pinball physics to work in 3D

Edit: Oh yeah, Fancy Pants Adventures is crazy cool. I remember seeing a video and not being impressed, but video doesn't do it justice.