Nope, sure do hope it's addressed though. Actually Stealth kind of explained it on his stream just now. You're pretty much spot on. They were basic Eggrobos sent to get the ruby, but upon getting it the energy turns them into the Hard Boiled Heavies. They want to keep the gem for themselves, so after GHZ 2 you're treated to a cutscene of Eggman yelling at them to get Sonic but they're just dicking around with the ruby instead. So he takes it and sends Sonic off. Once you get to Titanic Monarch, Eggman is in control of the ruby and is able to better warp things to his needs, including using the HBH's to his disposal, with the exception of the HBH King, who goes completely rouge and tries to take the gem from Eggman during the final Super Sonic fight. As for the HBH king's transformation? I'm going to chalk that up to the ruby or the Master Emerald.
Did Stealth elaborate on any more of the story? I'd love to get a little bit more explanation of the storyline from him or Taxman.
exhibit a: https://youtu.be/LNxrS4F_HwM?t=21 exhibit b: https://youtu.be/d917V29aNgA?t=81 //forums.sonicretro.org/public/style_emoticons/default/v.png
Stealth confirmed on stream that Titanic Monarch's act 2 boss is based on Metallic Madness' concept boss, Psycho-Egg
Titanic Monarch is secretly the best new zone. It is disorienting on your initial run, but is really, really fun on replays.
And its name is Phantom Egg. During this battle the Heavies are the Phantom Heavies - Phantom Gunner, Phantom Shinobi, Phantom Magician and Phantom Rider. He gave out a few names. The Titanic Monarch Act 1 boss is Crimson Eye, the Metallic Madness Act 2 boss is Gachapandora (or Gachapondora?), the red Rollers are Roller Mark 2, the green snake version of Caterkiller is Rattlekiller. I wasn't around for earlier in the stream, so I didn't catch all the names.
Yes, I do. It is not present in the earliest S&K protos, nor in Knuckles in Sonic 2, but is present in the final. The reasoning is obvious -- the move didn't yet exist when they (Naka?) ported the Knuckles object to Sonic 2, and when they later added the move, they neglected to update the Knuckles in Sonic 2 code. The move also isn't present in Stealth's Knuckles in Sonic 1 hack, because he disassembled the Knuckles object from Knuckles in Sonic 2 rather than the one from Sonic & Knuckles. Hacking S3&K only quite recently became a fad.
I was never really disoriented. I guess I picked the right direction, because falling through the purple haze when I wasn't supposed to brought me back to the very recognizable start of the section, and I realized right away what I was to do.
I've been watching the Stealth stream and he says that Tom Fry made the (majority of) zone transition animations and Hunter Bridges implemented them. Concepts were by Fry and Whitehead. Chemical Plant 2 concept by Whitehead and I know that the level was designed by Flick.
Random thought, but I wish Spoiler the ending was done by Tyson /> It's not drawn or animated by him. I think it's a little underwhelming for that reason, just cause after seeing the intro an ending animation would have been perfect.
Spoiler I didn't really notice to be honest. What I did find underwhelming was the Knuckles good ending which I recently streamed. It's just a static picture... and that's it! Anyway, a bit late now, but in case you haven't seen them yet, I have done 3 videos (all contain spoilers obviously): Sonic Mania Blind Gameplay live stream as Sonic and Tails - feat. Yuan09 Sonic Mania live stream - Knuckles & Knuckles Gameplay plus Super Knuckles & Debug Mode Sonic Mania - Competition Mode feat. Yuan09 http://youtu.be/chKp3cc-cAM
So, now the honeymoon period is over I'll give my thoughts on Sonic Mania: Spoiler Physics aren't 1:1 with any of the classics, but it feels like they're closer to Sonic 3's than Sonic 3's was to Sonic 2's, so I'd consider that close enough. Crushing unfortunately happens far too easily, in situations where the classics would push you out, and occasionally make the game feel unfair, but these situations are avoidable once you know where they are. The drop dash is a nice addition; although I prefer the Insta-Shield (and I see no reason to not have the Peelout anyway), the drop dash does allow for a few advanced techniques, mostly speedrun-related but has its uses in boss battles too. You can change Sonic's moveset to his S3K or SCD moveset, but only on a no save file (a decision that baffles me). Another great addition is the way shields interact with the environment. Lightning shields now attract Sonic to any major electrical sources, like the electromagnets in Flying Battery, or the hazards in Titanic Monarch. Flame shields now burn bridges and set oil on fire, as well as melting ice. The level design is mediocre, although it has some standout moments. A lot of the "size" of the levels is an illusion, as most levels are a few short platforming section interspersed with half a minute of holding down (or waiting while in a pipe) as the game takes you to the next short platforming section. It makes every zone feel like Chemical Plant, a zone I personally find fairly forgettable, but lacks things like the fast platforming found in Aquatic Ruin, or the methodical platforming of Marble Garden. There are exceptions, and these tend to be the most memorable levels for me - Flying Battery and Press Garden contain a lot less automation than their surrounding zones, and Hydrocity Act 1 somehow manages to have less than its source. Lava Reef probably has my favourite level design in the game, being a decent mix of the different speeds and offering a solid challenge throughout. Knuckles-exclusive routes are fairly scarce; I could only find the start of GHZ1, a short section in CPZ2, MSZ1 and the start of MSZ2, and LRZ2. Lava Reef again feels like it's done the best, with the routes being sporadically placed and eventually culminating in an entirely different boss. Objects in levels are almost entirely taken from old games, but in combinations which are new and change things up. There are some new mechanics in there too, like the Chemical Plant syringes that allow you to bounce on the goo. In early footage I saw a lot of badniks waiting off-screen and delivering cheap hits, but it seems this doesn't really start until Hydrocity, and then goes away again before Lava Reef in the final, so it's not too much of an issue. Mirage Saloon Act 1 (ST) for some reason decides to take the worst part of the classic games, and then copy all of its flaws exactly. In replaying the game I just quit at MSZ and start again at OOZ, because I find it so dull. MSZ2 isn't much better, with no real challenge and any damage taken feeling like it was the game trying to ruin your life rather than a genuine mistake. Sonic 4 had Sky Fortress Zone, which did a Sky Chase-like zone and actually made it somewhat interesting; this is not. On the subject of things Sonic 4 did better, Super transformation really should not be a double jump action when characters have their own double jump actions. Not only does it mean you need to take damage if you have a shield to transform as Sonic, but it also means you can't fly as Tails or glide as Knuckles without climbing, the latter being particularly bad as there are some sections that require you to glide, and in fact can make it impossible to progress without dying as a glide is necessary to continue and all you have is a transformation. It's not as though you're short of buttons on a modern controller, but you could even do the Sonic 3 Complete route of "press two jump buttons together" and it'd work. Bosses are easily the worst part of the game. Many of them suffer from poor conveyance, especially the Flying Battery boss and its sometimes non-solid bumper. Some of them completely change the genre of the game, like the Chemical Plant boss, and the others just aren't very interesting. Metallic Madness gets the exception sticker on this occasion for being a great idea that made me smile, although it lacks any real challenge. Mania has quite a few bugs. Not as many as S3K, but quite a few. I've been unable to complete Press Garden as Tails, because the game freezes after the miniboss every single time; similarly I've been stuck in areas requiring a restart more times than I'd like - hopefully these can be patched, along with fixing Super transformation, improving boss conveyance, and maybe adding transitions to the levels that are missing them (only about half of the levels in the game contain transitions, with the rest just fading out and then having Sonic etc. appear in a new level without even the most basic of explanations as to how they got there). The game itself is fairly easy; easier than any of the classic games, to the point that I never saw a game over or time over. The only challenging levels (as opposed to 'level is a dick to you' levels) were Lava Reef and Metallic Madness, with most of Titanic Monarch's "challenge" coming from being crushed by platforms that really shouldn't be able to crush you. Graphics are pretty cool. It keeps the retro aesthetic while looking fresh, and most levels have some cool effects going on. Music is amazing; I was worried about the lack of variety seen before the game was released, but tracks like Press Garden and Oil Ocean manage to stand out and complete the soundscape. Bonus stages are a nice idea, but many of the new levels are just confusing rather than difficult, with some requiring memorisation rather than skill. I've left special stages until last because these are by far the best part of the game. They combine the best parts of Chaotix and Heroes special stages; with blue spheres providing a speed increase and rings providing time, you have to catch up to the emerald (being flown about by a UFO from Sonic CD). The stages are well designed, and outside of a few nitpicks (like bumpers extending above the ground physically, but not visibly) they're near-perfect. I'd love to play a full game of the special stages in this game, much like Blue Sphere was a thing. TL;DR: physics good, moves good, level design mixed, objects good, Super transformation bad, bosses bad, bugs bad, difficulty easy, graphics good, music good, bonus stages okay, special stages amazing, Mirage Saloon bad, Lava Reef good, more like Lava Reef please. Where it sits in my placement of classic Sonic games: Sonic 3 & Knuckles Sonic CD Sonic Advance Sonic Mania Sonic the Hedgehog Sonic the Hedgehog (8-bit) Sonic the Hedgehog 2 Congratulations guys, you made a classic Sonic game.
I think what will decide this game's ranking for me is dependent on what bugs they fix (the game's ranking being whether it'll be my favorite Sonic game or my 2nd favorite Sonic game). Sonic 3 & Knuckles has held my favorite spot for a long time, and while it's content is more original and has a move cohesive story, I feel like Mania is a bit grander in scale and spectacle. There's also more content thanks to the unlockables and Time Trial mode. There are some moments that hold Mania back a bit though, like I didn't need to see Sky Chase again and I certainly did not want to revisit the Death Egg Act 1 boss again (although since that's in Sonic 3 & Knuckles, it doesn't really affect this game's spot for me in any way). There's also the fact that thanks to the nature of the game with revisiting old zones, the plot makes no sense and isn't conveyed well (yet to be seen if they'll add zone transitions via a patch). I don't blame them for that really, it's not like they're the ones who wanted to make 2/3 of the game old levels, but it does make story telling harder when you go from Little Planet to Angel Island to whatever island Sonic 2 was on. And Generations had the same problem in that sense. I would have preferred all new levels, but seeing old levels brought back with new life was enjoyable in its own way so I'm kind of neutral on it. But after beating it 5 times I still say it's good stuff, and it's definitely one I'm going to continue going back to. If they can fix the music glitches, change the Super transformation command, and fix the BS glitches that cause people to beat HCZ Act 2 in 33 seconds thus ruining the leaderboards, then this game will be my number 1. If not, a very close 2nd. And for those who are curious, Sonic 2 is in 3rd and Generations is in 4th. Spoiler In a game with so many sprites and animations, why does Super Sonic reuse Sonic's sprites still? Was it a nostalgic call back or something? Because I didn't like it then either, it looks silly. I mean it's obviously low on the priority list, and low on my priority list as well, but still.
Is it possible to kill the HBH in that final boss fight? They could all be minibosses in their own right and almost seem wasted. I also can't wait until people start ripping sprites from this game. They're so fluid.
I think someone mentioned a few pages back that it's not possible to defeat them. I honestly like Sonic 3k's Sonic sprites way better than mania's, but regardless I'd still like to see someone rip the Mania sprites too.
DigitalDuck, why do you place Sonic 2 so lowly on your list? I think Sonic 2 is fantastic, just as good as 3AK. I would actually count them as equals, were it not for 3AK's save feature. I'm only asking because I see a lot of people criticise Sonic 2 in a manner I find baffling. How can it be worse than Sonic 1 and 8 bit Sonic 1? I do find it a bit knee-jerky, like people critique it just because it's the most popular Sonic game outside of the fanbase. But I want to hear your perspective on it. Personally, I would rank the Classics as: Sonic 3AK Sonic 2 Sonic Mania Sonic CD Sonic 1 All the 8 Bit titles And I'm someone who really likes CD mind you. People here might think I really dislike Mania with the amount I've been criticising it, but I actually really love it. It's just got really irritating issues with an overabundance of crushing, a poor continue system (reverting to Act 1 after Game Over with no option to backtrack and gain lives or continues) and a narrative that peters out. But other than that I really do love it. I agree with DigitalDuck that most the bosses are naff and that there is too much automation. I actually find it funny how everyone rails on DIMPS while this game has as much automation as Sonic 4 at times. Titanic Monarch in particular is ridiculously automated, despite being a frustating and unfun experience. But even levels I really like, such as Chemical Plant 2, are probably too automated, and that's one of my favourite levels. I think a lot of people overlook or forgive automation if it's more interestingly done than 'stare at boosters'.
There's automation but at least you're still in control for the most part. You can move around and explore if you want to and you don't have stay curled in a ball going down endless slopes, unlike say Sonic 4 where you're just slammed along a booster ride and then have to homing attack across a pit, giving you no chance to backtrack and effectively making it a point of no return. Also did anyone find Metallic Madness's inclusion to be rather unexpected? I thought for sure because its gimmicks were used elsewhere (CPZ used it's tubes and LRZ used those walker things that I think were also in MMZ) that it wouldn't show up, but to my surprise it did. Still would have loved to see some kind of sunken Death Egg ruins though.
