Great find! Another thought... what if these are actually sprites for a 2 player racing game? Similar to that found in Sonic 3? I am still keeping my fingers crossed for Ice Cap zone.
Those look like graphics for a completely different game... Not only are the characters very different, but the background uses a completely different shading style from everything we've seen of Mania so far. I'd be surprised if those could be found anywhere in the actual game. On the other hand, they apparently had graphics ready for more levels than they originally planned to post (hence the quick switch from Hidrocity to Flying Battery), so I really can't tell if the images mean anything or not. Maybe they're progress icons or something.
There also exists the possibility that he drew Knuckles in Hydrocity for fun, but then realized that it would get people's hopes up for Hydrocity in Mania and thus pulled it to avoid disappointing fans. Personally I feel just as much in the dark as before. Ah well, just a few weeks to go anyway. Looking forward!
Ha, yeah, he's clearly labelled them as fanart since he posted the first one. Even if he hadn't taken down the Knuckles one with Hydrocity background (I sadly missed/didn't see this when it was posted) I wouldn't consider it a slam dunk confirmation of Hydrocity being in "Mania," since he's clearly been labeling the work fanart and the pixel art style is distinct from "Mania." (Though as everyone else I presume the returning "Sonic 3" zone in "Mania" is either Hydrocity or Ice Cap and likely the former for a host of reasons already discussed.) When it comes to the download file size for "Mania" as pointed out I'm sure the HD video for the opening animation will be a decent amount, and maybe they decided to have the music be lossless instead of compressed or at a higher bit rate then they thought there were going to do. Also including the classic games would seem a bit counterintuitive considering "Mania" has updated versions of zones from all of them, and the price for all four classic games on Steam adds up to $20, so if they did that they'd essentially either be giving all the classic games away for free (or I guess you could look at it as paying for the classic games and getting "Mania" for free). I doubt Sega would be interested in doing that considering 2.38 million copies of SEGA Mega Drive and Genesis Classics have been sold, as well as 340k for "Sonic CD" by itself, and both are regularly in Steam sales, meaning they periodically receive spikes in purchases. Not trying to completely dismiss your theory--anything's possible! Just seems unlikely to me, and I definitely would not go in expecting anything like that.
Oh god, if Sonic 1-3&K + CD make it to the Switch on the retro engine along with Mania I will fucking die happy. They don't even have to be under the same price tag. Just give me the other games a month later and I'll pay you again. Let us give you our money Sega.
Lol no. It's surely the video. Considering Sonic CD had about 4min worth of videos in it, using the standard Youtube 1080p compression at 29.97 fps just the video would occupy 288mb (source). Add to that about 40 OGG files for the OST with an average size of 2mb... 80+288=368. That would leave about 132mb for the rest of the game.
On the topic of video/audio filesizes: ironically, video/audio compression only got really good in the past 10 years or so, so prior you'd have to have had much higher bitrates to maintain the same quality in older video codecs. FMVs from 90s PC games were laughably huge for the resolution/framerate they were at. There also was a point in time where all audio was pretty much PCM, which was why many games had the option for 22 or 11kHz audio (less memory used), and MIDI was the predominant format for music before redbook audio became the hot new thing for the era of WC2/Total Annihilation/XvT/etc. edit: That is to say, trying to compare Sonic CD's FMV to e.g. YouTube compression standards (as bad as they are) is misrepresenting how things were back in the 90s.
Sonic CD had 9 minutes 23 seconds of video. The opening was just over 90 seconds, but the good and bad ending videos were several minutes long, plus pencil test. The numbers on that site aren't applicable either. This article about Netflix explains why. Animation is less complicated, it compresses a lot better than actual camera footage. The actual numbers could be about half of that. But we don't actually know what format or resolution the video will be. What if they go with standard definition video to be consistent with the rest of the game? Your music file size estimates are little high. I think it's fair to compare to Sonic CD since it had 4 tracks for every stage and 2 completely separate soundtracks, totaling 71 tracks. The stage music tracks were all roughly 1MB, most less, some more. All of that music only filled 55.3MB. Since all of the remasters used Ogg music, I don't see any reason why they'd switch to a different format for Mania. On PC, Sonic CD used .ogm video, although they might not want to use that for Mania if the intro video is HD because that would require a lot of CPU time to decode compared to H264 which is supported by most CPU's natively now. I'm not saying that my theory earlier is the only explanation, I was just using existing numbers to try and justify why it might be feasible. 300MB sounds excessive for an intro animation, unless they chose to compress it less efficiently than something like YouTube. Either way, it's going to be a great game that prooved the justice of our culture. Now go and rest our heroes.
Oh yeah, I'm sure the opening animation video talks up more space--I wasn't implying otherwise. That's why the part preceding what you quoted was about the HD video, and the part you quoted was an additional consideration--I was simply saying the HD video and audio probably take up the majority of the download size for "Mania." You said as much with your approximation of the two added together probably being around 368 mb, but you accidentally subtracted that from 500 instead of 400; there would only be 32 mb left in that instance. Yes many games use Ogg for their audio files, but there are plenty that do not and/or opt for higher (256-320 kbps) bit rates. There's even some games that use or give the option to use FLAC/lossless, mostly special/collector's editions but also some standard releases, especially ones wherein the dev team knows the soundtrack isn't going to be made available for separate digital purchase. The "Sonic CD" standalone anniversary edition soundtrack (42 songs, "Mania" will probably be a few less but close in size) is 111.4 mb in 192 kbps Ogg and 148.4 mb in 256 kbps Ogg. Considering Tee Lopes has responded to inquiries about whether the full OST would be made available digitally by saying there have been no announcements and he sincerely does not know if it will yet, the higher the bit rate the music in the game download is the better. That said, I expect Sega will do the right thing and give the full soundtrack the digital release it deserves (hopefully lossless via Bandcamp, but likely at least 256 kbps via iTunes/Amazon). But yeah regardless of whether the full OST gets a digital release or not, the higher the quality the music/sound effects in the game are, the better--to me anyway.
It would honestly be stupid for the game to have lossless music. As others have said, it's the video(s). Who is to say there isn't an animated ending? Also I am expecting a non-vinyl soundtrack release as well. Even the games with horrific music have gotten soundtrack releases.
I think Hydrocity is the most natural choice. Didn't someone talk about another stage that was teased some time back? Not the leaked image one from the promos, but rather some stage that Aaron teased on his twitter that WASN'T chemical plant, or anything we've learned of since? Another new zone? Did we ever figure that out?
I just want to hear the music in the best quality possible is all, since it's so damn good! All that has been confirmed is an opening animated video, and that it would be posted on the 14th. There could be an ending one, too, or just a traditional pixel art sequence--none of us know. We'll find out soon enough. Last point I'll make regarding the audio bit rate/quality--why not make it as high as possible? This game is going to be under 1 GB no matter what quality they use for the animated video and audio files. That's a small download/amount of space needed for a game these days. If it's going to be a small download no matter what, I don't understand why folks would purposefully want video/audio quality to be lower than they could be. But hey, to each their own. Though I agree with you and everyone else here that having Taxman & Stealth's versions of 1, 2, CD, and potentially 3K on PC/Switch/PS4/Xbox One/etc. would be great, I also sadly (and seemingly paradoxically) think that might be a bad idea. It's clear that Taxman & Stealth were the ones listening to and fixing the bugs/errors/etc. in their versions of the classic games and updating them. If all the classic games were suddenly made available on PC/modern consoles, they would likely again be the ones responsible for listening to and fixing bugs/errors/etc. Personally, I'd much rather they be able to focus on doing that for "Mania" in the immediate aftermath of its release. And even 6-12 months after "Mania" releases, I'd still rather they not have to worry about dealing with fixing bugs in the classic games, but instead be able to fully devote their time to a prospective "Mania 2." Now, if Sega were to agree to handle all bug fixes/support for all releases of Taxman & Stealth versions of the classic games, then sure, I'd have no problem with them releasing them on PC/modern consoles as soon as possible. But I just don't think that would happen. On the bright side: if a "Mania 2" is given the green-light, I doubt they would totally throw out the concept of updating/remaking some classic zones. I know everyone (myself included) is more excited about new zones and would want a "Mania 2" to have a much higher amount/ratio of them. But personally I'd be fine if they do a few returning zones for "Mania 2"--that way they could do the few remaining standout zones that didn't make it into the first one. (And honestly huge fans like everyone here would probably be more excited to see those than the obvious/most popular ones that made the cut for "Mania.") If they did 1 or 2 more zones from "Sonic 3K" in a "Mania 2" then we'd essentially be getting a Taxman & Stealth (and PagodaWest and the rest of the "Mania" dev team) version of 3K, just in the form of returning zones spread across "Mania 1 & 2," and with more incredible pixel art and animation. That said, if they ported all the classic games to PC/modern consoles at some point in the future when they aren't busy working on new games, that'd be rad, too, of course. I just think "Mania" and the hopeful continuation of it should take precedent over that.
So, the Hydrocity art as been found, which I guess more or less confirms this zone is in Mania. Hydrocity is probably the best underwater stage out of all the classics, so nothing wrong with it's inclusion. Although it does feel like a safe choice when it comes to choosing a Sonic 3 stage and I would have preferred a brand-new underwater level.
I'm glad that HC made it in. I would honestly prefer IC/LR combo as S3K representatives but HC/FB is not too bad.
Wow. So we're about to hit the 'Two Weeks Left' checkpoint! What point are people planning to abandon the thread as more info surfaces? I'm already starting to reach my limit. This time next week I'll be on full blackout mode. Does Retro normally have a protocol for this sort of thing? Separate thread for spoiler-free refugees? :v:
From memory, we use the spoiler tag which hides any text in a neat box where it's hidden. For example, Spoiler Sonic Mania will be awesome
I know yeah, the time has flown by. As I said earlier on I think I'll be checking out quite soon. I think when we hit the "one week left" check point I'll probably abandon the thread for fear of spoilers. I want as much of the game to be a surprise as possible. As we approach release the information is going to pour out, with all the zones leaking and so on, so a week seems like a good time to go on "black out" mode. I'll participate in the discussion until then however. Just over two weeks left!
Unless they say it's in, nothing is confirmed. While I won't doubt Hydrocity is in the game, I'd say a deleted tweet marked as fanart doesn't really confirm anything.
I agree and actually...I think I'm out of this thread now. I would have guessed Hydrocity was going to be the Sonic 3 representative for this game but I did want it to still be somewhat of a surprise. I'l' find out on the 15th. See you all on the 16th, assuming I've already 100%'ed that game twice at least by then.
