You know, I used to really dislike Marble Garden Zone for being a bit of a chore and not having any particularly inventive graphics or music, but after a good chunk of replays I really have come to love it for it's master class level design. The diverging paths are my number one go-to as an example of multiple characters done right. I also love the spinning top gimmick as it's a gadget that requires 'speed' to activate, and the earthquake sections were pretty tense and exciting when I was younger. MGZ in general has a good flow to it and I always feel a little sad when people deride it as the worst Sonic 3 Zone.
On the topic of Super Sonic, I think Doomsday Zone was fantastic for the time. Now, it's been done to death. How many Super Sonic fights can you count where you're dodging asteroids in space? SA1 was alright, but it could have certainly been better. I've admittedly spent way too much time finding exploits and glitches in that game that I find a lot of it a broken mess. If anyone can make a Super Sonic fight original and well designed, it would have to be this dev team. On the topic of Marble Garden Zone, yeah that's definitely the weakest zone in the game for me (Lava Reef Act 1 FTW). It just feels very bogged down and stop and go for me- sorry but no thank you. Thankfully, S3K's solid mechanics and things like Super Sonic and elemental shields ease the burden. Just goes to show how tight controls and fun gimmicks can make even the weaker levels somewhat enjoyable.
Re: MGZ, I always thought Carnival Night was the weakest The gimmicks for that level I always found kind of infuriating and Act 2 is rather overlong. To be honest, I think Doomsday Zone is the only Super Sonic segment that really works for me - I found the Sonic Advance renditions to be rather annoying and unfun (on top of being near-impossible to actually get to without cheats, because of the awful special stages those games had) and the 3D ones being really, really jank. Doomsday Zone has a Super Sonic that is easy to control and has a boss fight that isn't cheap or overly busy. SA1 is the only one that really satisfies those same requirements, but it's kinda wasted on a fight that is really short and overly repetitive.
Where the hell was I when Marble Garden Zone was declared the weakest zone in Sonic 3??? I mean, "stop and go" is classic platforming at it's best. It wasn't ever intended to be a "hold right to win" zone. If anything, it was the RIGHT way to do a Sonic zone with gimmicks. They did not clash, did not cause cheap deaths, and left plenty of room for exploration as well as speed! Don't blame Marble Garden's Bubbles ruining your life. Sonic 4 did that. Bubbles was a real badnik back then, not a Sonic Adventure homing attack nightmare. I really hope that cathedral level is a revamped Marble Garden Act 2 now.....
I don't know why anyone would think Marble Garden was a weak zone. It's one of the best in my opinion. It has some very unique and fun gimmicks! I always loved the section of the level where the ceiling and walls are all closing in on Sonic.
Marble Garden is awesome. It's never left quite the same impact as the other S3K stages, probably because it's not too unique visually and the music is pretty tame. But it's only the weakest because he rest of the game sets the bar so high. It's like the only eight in a game of nines and tens.
Let me be clear of my opinion: there are no bad zones in S3K. Just less good ones. That being said, MGZ is not my cup of tea. Stop and go is fine in moderation, I prefer that compared to hold right to win, but I felt like too many sections were boxed in and restricted. For example needing the spinning top to bust through certain walls otherwise having to go back and retrieve it. The boss fight at the end was good doe. Don't get me started on the Bubbles. They got straight up lobotomized in Sonic 4. Flying targets for the homing attack. You know what especially infuriates me though? I can't for the life of me recall one example in the classic titles where badniks just line themselves up like that to make for flying stepping stones to get across something or reach higher ground. Who started that trend in lazy as shit game design? And why is it always rearing its ugly head in games that are supposed to be throwbacks to the genesis games? Ie Sonic 4, Generations.
Weirdly enough, I always found Marble Garden to be quite memorable. I hated Carnival Night - Damned Barrels, and Ice Cap was only really interesting in it's second act. Yes, I just threw shit at Ice Cap Zone, sue me. :v:
We still don't know the Sonic 3 zone, do we? I'm still desperately hoping we get Hydrocity, but if we don't get it, I hope we get Marble Garden.
Thank you! This is very useful information wish I had a PS4 since I'm three hours behind EST. Oh well, I can wait a few hours, hopefully Xbox launches at midnight my local time. Can you guys believe it's 45 days (or so) away?! I can't believe it. Still get the emotional reaction from watching the trailers that I got from seeing them the first time
My logical speculation is that at least one or two games will be double dipping. The pessimist in me is refraining from assuming that each game will be double dipping, because that would be cooler than we deserve.
re: Marble Garden Zone It's quite possibly my favourite zone of all times. Not trivial, because you have to go left and right, jump and run, and so on, but not impossible or tedious either. If I want to randomly play a random level for the sake of it, I always go to Marble Garden Zone. After that, if I can resist through Carnival Night Zone, which I don't particularly like, four other good zones follow: Ice Cap Zone, Launch Base Zone, Mushroom Hill Zone (probably the best zone from the Sonic & Knuckles half), and Flying Battery Zone (not the best zone ever, but it has good music at least). At that point, Sandopolis Zone arrives and I usually close the game, the only other zone I like from the Sonic & Knuckles half is Sky Sanctuary Zone. Also, since it's been a few days... here's the link to the petition I created to ask for a physical release, again: http://www.change.org/p/dear-sega-o...eive-a-physical-release-of-sonic-mania-please
As much as I would love to have a physical release of Mania, I won't be signing that petition. These petitions are useless when there isn't a planned and concerted effort to actually drive large numbers of people to sign. The overuse of online petitions makes them lose whatever impact they could possibly have. The best way to convince SEGA of a physical release is to support the game in sales, particularly the halfway--house that is the Collectors Edition. Make your voice heard in other ways.
Personnaly I'd rather have a physical version for a compilation of remastered classic Sonic games. Hoping Sonic 1, CD and 2 gets their way on PC, PS4 and XBoxOne along with Sonic 3 & Knuckles and why not Knuckles Chaotix. Then I'd ask for a compilation.
I feel that the inclusion of Marble Garden Act 2's corkscrew loops in Stardust Speedway is a sign that we won't see that zone remastered in Mania. Same goes for any unique zone gimmick or enemy that was placed in a different remastered zone.
Hm, with other Japanese franchises doing so, how likely do you think it would be for Mania to be getting a Linux port? Not that it's a priority for me personally, but it'd still be kinda neat.
Yes, I agree that it's safe to assume that we won't be seeing Marble Garden Zone in Sonic Mania. I was just stating that I love that zone.
Not getting the love for Marble Garden Zone. My eight-year old self kind of hated it at the time. You have two awesome zones in Angel Island and Hydrocity, and then you're given that shit which just isn't fun to play. One of the worst zones in the entire series in my opinion, second only to Sandopolis. As for Mania's physical release, unlikely given the CE is out there. Perhaps down the line when Mania lights the charts on fire, as it inevitably will.
Likewise not getting the love for it. I loathe Marble Garden, but have always thoroughly enjoyed Sandopolis. But I would definitely take either in a heartbeat over Wacky Workbench.
