Sonic Lost World (Wii U, 3DS, PC) Megathread

Do they really have to roll with the daytime stage formula forever? It's been, like, five years. We're just jumping into a new phase of Sonic's development. This game is rough around the edges, but it can't be helped since Sonic Team seems to be utterly incapable of getting anything completely right on the first try.

I sure as hell don't like Unleashed. But I do like the games that followed. Who's to say that won't be the case with the games they'll make next?

Anyway, speak for yourself when you say you don't want this.

 

I'm sorry about the mood whiplash, but I haven't been doing so well personally, and I needed to vent about something. I'll give it a more fair look in a couple days or so. I'm sorry about all this.

 

It's the strangest thing... after a great pep talk from the great Clement (his review of the wii u version), I went back to the game (which I haven't even played for days, while writing my own review), and jumped into Lava Mountain act 3 again.

I got through Zavok's section with no problems, this time. Everything I complained about before was no longer an issue. I just... did it.

I also went back to a few other stages that really frustrated me before, only for the same thing to happen. Well.... aside from Lava Mountain Act 2. That stage is still finnicky as fuck, but I didn't have AS MUCH trouble as before.

I even managed to get a bunch of red rings I "couldn't" the first time around.

The owl was never an issue for me, and the snowball level wasn't an issue aside from those bigger enemies near the end. Little things like that, I could get over. I had my limits, but it really was just me.

I think Clement is right. People just need to get better at videogames. It's weird, but after hearing that, I just became much more focused and everything suddenly felt so much more... possible.

YES, this game is BRUTAL. YES, the controls do take a lot of getting used to and it's hard to acclimate yourself enough to make the most of them.

But so what?

I honestly don't think this is even a matter of whether you've played the game enough or not. Like I said, I haven't even touched it in a while, so you'd think I'd be too rusty, but that wasn't a problem. It was the MINDSET I was in now that made it all so much easier.

The way I see it, this game is just so wild and unfamiliar and new and downright alien that it puts us in a state of mind that just makes us too flustered to do anything the game wants us to. I was trapped in that state of mind for a while and, at times, could even say I hated the game. Suddenly, though, that's all melted away. I've escaped that rut, and I love the game now, or at least more OF it than I did.

There are still some bad ideas and bad level designs sprinkled throughout the game. But they aren't all over the place like people make them out to be. I can't help thinking back to Clement saying some Sonic games are bad because they "make a bad first impression." The whole "Oh, well if you KNOW to watch out for this, and this, and this, then it's easy!" excuse is a copout because a game should just be fun from the get go... and this was, for a while! It didn't make a bad first impression early on, but the I admit the later levels did and it wore me down. Now, though? I feel like I can do anything.

This is just a case where some people "don't get it", and some will. I didn't, for a while, but I think I do now. And like him or not, the guy's given me a lot to think about. Like, seriously, my opinion of this whole thing has drastically changed. I won't speak for everyone, but I was dead wrong about this game... twice... kinda.

 

I'm totally agreed with that... I'm always find annoying when people complains about games difficulty, it's like that news about metroid for virtual console that "modern gamers" cannot pass the first minutes

In my case, collecting the red rings wasn't very hard. Replaying the stages that also frustrated me before was a lot easier after I manage to "understand" the mechanic

 

Yes, it was 5 years, but it was only 3 games, and Colors is arguable on that front as it was more similar to this game than it was to Unleashed. I also kind of share his sentiment. Yes, Sonic Team can't get something right on their first try, but after 3 games they were making a gameplay style fun and they were starting to flesh things out more. It took them 10 years to finally get a gameplay that didn't suck. Adventure's could have worked but the level design was poor, Heroes was just one big problem, Shadow was like a sloppy Adventure with Heroes esq level design and guns, 06 was... 06, and the Storybook games are best to be forgotten. Their track record is terrible. So when they finally get something good, and then go about developing some great levels in Generations like Chemical Plant, Sky Sanctuary, Seaside Hill (I mean that was the ultimate turn around right there. The level it was based off of was horrendous), and Rooftop Run, they say fuck it and throw it out. You don't see Mario throwing out the core gameplay mechanics every 3 games, hell they've used the same formula since 1996, only recently they've been merging the Mario 64 formula with the classic Mario gameplay. Instead, Mario takes what it did last game, uses what worked, and adapted and evolved so that each game is just really good.

Maybe this gameplay style will work in the end. If they ditch the color powers and the Mario Galaxy esq gravity and combine what worked from the classic series for the 2D sections and what worked from the boost gameplay, we'll finally have Sonic gold. But instead now we have to wait for them to build again. I personally am tired of having these experiment games, and I'm also sick of Sonic Team not being confident in what they're doing enough to stick to a core gameplay style. Instead they throw in gimmicks, pointless missions, and strange, deviant levels because they're afraid either the game will be too short or that people won't think the game is fun. No more teams, no more guns, no more color powers (after this game it kind of proves they just don't work, at least not with motion controls), no more bouncy clouds or Mario Galaxy influence, no more snowball levels, and no more grind rail levels. Make a game of Windy Hill and Desert Ruins 3D sections with Generations Classic Sonic 3D sections and do not deviate from it (If you have to do it in the way of S3K with playable Tails and Knuckles).

EDIT: To clarify, I'm not bitching because the game is hard. I beat the game, I got all the red rings, and I almost have all S ranks save for 8 and part of it's because I haven't gotten around to it yet (Except I can't speedrun that snowball level since I'm really bad at fighting that boss quickly. Not a great level to put a boss in). I like that the enemies now pose a threat now too, save for that spider section in Silent Forest Zone 1 that's just too slow for Sonic.

 

Aw, come on Dark Sonic. I love the level design in Sonic Adventure. It's got a decent blend of speed, platforming, and even some spurts of exploration. More than any other 3D game, it feels like I'm truly playing a classic Sonic game in 3D, at least in Sonic's campaign. Cut out everyone else ('cept maybe Tails), and you've got the ideal 3D Sonic gameplay, or at least I think so. In Adventure, the level design is all over the place. Robotnik and Tails get oodles of nonstop platforming, Knuckles and Rouge are all exploration, and Sonic and Shadow are just speed, speed and more speed, with any other elements being centered around nabbing a level-up item and ending with that. There's no... balance.

While I greatly prefer the modern stages over the daytime stages, it's... well, it's mainly because they feel more like Sonic Adventure's level designs, to me.


Anyway, about Mario, yeah. They've stuck to a formula for a long time, now.

But here's the thing... a lot of people are sick of playing the same game over and over again. Heck, Sunshine is one of my favorites simply for the fact that it stands out. It plays well enough, despite some really dumb parts, and I just appreciate it for being something INTERESTING and new and... different.

But, games like that just weren't well received back in the day, so Nintendo gave up on innovation (aside from the Galaxy games) and are afraid to do anything but play it safe, now. At least, that's how I see it.



Anyway... all of that aside, I do agree that Sonic team lacks focus and direction.

 

"y can't metroid crawl?", that's honestly kind of scary. I played Smash Bros Melee before getting Metroid Prime Hunters, so I at least knew what her morph ball was, but I forget that people buy new games on a whim too.

But the guy clearly didn't suck at the game to get that far. It was merely not knowing what to do, and Super Metroid certainly doesn't tell you what to do, like the 3D Metroid's will. Ignorance is very different from skill.

 

SA1 had... ok level design IMO. Maybe it's because I haven't played it in a while, but it seemed to be designed in a way to trick you that the game wasn't linear even though it was. With the exception of maybe that Lost Ruins room towards the end with the puzzle and parts of Speed Highway, I don't remember the option to take too many different paths, and if you could they were over in about 5 seconds. I will say that it was better than SA2, where Sonic and Shadow's levels (which are the only one's that matter in this case) were extremely linear.

But like you said, you actually started to like the Modern gameplay because the level designs were more vast and allowed you to do more things, kind of like with Adventure. That's they thing. They were learning and getting better. And instead of continuing to learn and improve they threw everything out. That's what angers me.

EDIT: On a side note, last night I farmed about 48,000 animals in Hidden World Zone 1. Got distracted by watching a show while doing it and before I know it, bam, almost 50,000 animals.

 

Because the 3DS levels are long as fuck. If you lose your last life near the end, you have to redo the whole thing.

 

So they need to improve on their overall game design and make more intuitive controls, which would allow people to have fun from the get go.

And it's something that's possible to do. How many of us had any problems while playing, for example, Sonic & Knuckles for the first time (or even Generations, for that matter)? Blaming the already heavily experienced players won't make a game's flawed design decisions better, just as telling yourself the crapper doesn't smell is not going to clean the air. =P

 

I just discovered that I can activate the Wisps by pressing the R button on the Wii U.

I don't know if I should feel like an idiot for not knowing that or if this game should have explained that better. Up until this time I thought I had to activate them by touching the screen which royally threw me off. I might be able to time trial Silent Forest Act 2 now (The rhythm wisp serves as a save my ass device in that second part).

Speaking of Silent Forest Act 2, it'd be a really fun level to time trial if it weren't for that spot light BS. Whoever thought not only of that but also of the great idea to throw loops in that section needs to be shot.

EDIT: I'm not sure how much our lord and savior watches over us but I decided to post a glitch topic for the Wii U version on sega's board. If you guys are members there perhaps you could add to the list in hopes of a patch, as this is a game that could use one. I don't care about the 3DS version as much, as it doesn't seem to be as bad glitch wise, although the glitches that do occur in that game can cause the game to crash.

 

Generations 3DS didn't have a proper option menu for sound and they have never added one. I doubt they'll patch one in.

 

This game makes learning controls and its ins and outs so much of a pain. There is a bunch of depth to what you can do, but the does an awful job communicating what you can and can't do in addition to piling on shoddy level design. In an age where people can't even grasp the simplest of game mechanics without being told about them, and even then they either ignore hints or still don't understand, intuitive controls are a must.

 

I made a review of sorts, but it's more of an informative ramble with some opinions sprinkled here and there. I tried to explain the controls in detail, albeit briefly for folks who haven't played it yet. Oh, there's story spoilers, if that matters.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INVR3gY_GHs[/youtube]

 

Except I pointed out that this level gives out lives like crazy before he made the video. /> *runs*

Anyways, I'll give you all a low down on the 3DS Stages and Acts so those of you who haven't picked it up yet know what you're going into sans Hard Mode and the Extra Acts. *Spoiler'd for size reasons*

Spoiler

Windy Hill Act 1: Green Hill Zone ending with being chased by another larger than life badnik (definitely not copying Sonic Adventure's Killer Whale or Generations' Giant Chopper chase sequences).

Windy Hill Act 2: Generic Mario Cave Level + Green Hill Zone + SA1 Lost World

Windy Hill Act 3: Splash Hill Zone Act 3 (looks and plays like it was ripped right out of Sonic 4 Episode 1, boosters and all. Completely sidescrolling.)

Windy Hill Boss: Zazz trying to crush you with a 'sentient' yellow boulder with a face.

Desert Ruins Act 1: Generic Mario Desert Level with a Giant Alien Space Worm trying to eat you alive at the end that CAN kill Super Sonic.

Desert Ruins Act 2: Get balls with faces on top of switches and knock them out so you can progress: The Act.

Desert Ruins Act 3: Hope you like more Alien Space Worms vomiting at you.

Desert Ruins Boss: Fat Zeti riding a "Not-Thwomp" that can spit out fireballs. You attack its ass to make it crumble.

Tropical Coast Act 1: Completely side scrolling level that's mostly underwater. Hope you liked using the Drill Wisp in Colors, because it's back.

Tropical Coast Act 2: Puzzle Act involving Giant Peaches(?) and Badnik Fights

Tropical Coast Act 3: 3D Level Underwater that's mostly a bottomless pit. If you love the Drill Wisp, you'll be using it here even more than you did in Act 1, and it controls like a flight simulator (vertical axis are inverted).

Tropical Coast Boss: Chibi Monk Zeti trying to run you over with a Wheel of Giant Fruit. Sidescrolling.

Frozen Factory Act 1: Snowboarding a la Ice Cap followed by some Snowball rolling. A pre-cursor of what's to come (and I'm not referring to the snowboarding).

Frozen Factory Act 2: Side Scroller Platforming Level. Nothing noteworthy.

Frozen Factory Act 3: God Help You: The Level. Hope you like pushing snowballs onto switches while avoiding a giant snowwomen's head rolling after you that can instantly freeze you solid and breaK any snowballs you're pushing or left on those switches.

Frozen Factory Boss: Giant Snowwomen with a female zeti on top. It will try to blow you away while little snowmen try to crash into you.

Silent Forest Act 1: Have fun using Gyro Controls for the Quake Wisp that you need to use in this act.

Silent Forest Act 2: Grind Rails and Extra Lives: The Act. (My personal favorite level) :specialed:/>

Silent Forest Act 3: Side Scroller Platforming with plenty of Grind Rails. Giant Owl Robot spotlight avoiding section near the end (It won't insta-kill you like I've heard the console version does).

Silent Forest Boss: Emo Zeti used Double Team to boost his evasiveness. Hope you still like those Gyro Controls.

Sky Road Act 1: Casino Night in Space without the Roulette Wheels. Side-scrolling.

Sky Road Act 2: Casino Night in Space again except in 3D with a heavy emphasis on using the Asteroid Wisp.
Sky Road Act 3: Recycled Windy Hill tiles with more bottomless pits, Rocket Riding segments with gyro controls while avoiding a Giant Dragon Robot that shoots insta-kill fireballs while you're on it.

Sky Road Boss: The Red Guy from Cow and Chicken pretending to be a Zeti (okay, not really... :v:/> ) tag teaming you with that dragon from the last act. 2D.

Lava Road Act 1: Boss Rush Part 1

Lava Road Act 2: Boss Rush Part 2

Lava Road Act 3: Boss Rush Part 3

Lava Road Boss: Death Egg Robot + Egg Emperor + Egg Nega Wisp. Auto-running a la Colors' Final Boss and Unleashed Day Bosses.

Special Stages: Everything that could be said about these has already been said multiple times in this topic.

I don't really think much else could be said about these levels to summarize them, but you all should get the idea.

 

Spoiler

Nah, Desert levels in Mario games play very differently IMO

You can 'uninvert' them if you press L.

Only play while standing up. It's a lot better that way. Easier than Sonic 2 special stages!

 

I guess I can understand people liking this game, but some of the comments here just seem... well... "The controls are perfect." Direct quote.

http://www.reddit.com/r/3DS/comments/1qakpl/so_heres_my_take_on_sonic_lost_worlds_for_3ds/

 

Been lurkin' this thread somethin' fierce.

I enjoyed having a dense set of controls to wrap my head around, but whatever--it's not going to be everyone's cup of tea, and certainly, I can admit that they are overly complicated for what they are.

What I found more worrisome was the design of the tube/pill-shaped stages. I had fun with pretty much every stage, but those tube/pill stages were certainly what you bought the game to play, and they were certainly the most interesting bit of the game.

Those stages worked well enough. I love Tropical Whatever Zone 1, where you have a speedy middle path, a few crisscrossing upper paths, and a neat 3D underwater drilling segment. You've got speed, you've got exploration, you've got platforming, you've got combat--it feels very layered and hearty.

But that was how every tube/pill stage worked, whether it was inside a cave or outside on a bunch of grass. The upper path would always have tricky platforming, the middle path would always be the easy one, and the bottom path would always have neat things to discover. Even Sonic 1 develops past this idea--in Star Light Zone, you'll have tricky platforming and neat things to discover on every path. It's not the black and white top = platforming, middle = speed, bottom = discovery/danger ditrichotomy that Sonic Lost World sticks to.

And that's what worries me. It seems like even if the developers HAD created more tube/pill stages, they would've just used the same, predictable sense of paths.