Sonic the Hedgehog Hacking Contest 2010

It seems pretty unnecessary to me. It's one thing to judge hacks against each other to try and compare technical merit, level of effort, and aspects of design, but utilities and disassemblies are tools--they perform a certain function and end right there. What's there to judge? How pretty the "Confirm" button is?

 

Hopefully 'ProjectMighty' will have some sort of playability by then.

Definitely going for the Knuckles, Fang and Spindash trophies though. :]

 

usefulness, ease of use, layout design, technical difficulty

 

Ha, MainMemory said the exact words I was thinking before I could.

Lots of utilities and disassemblies and whatnot are created each year. Despite them all being for entirely separate things (for the most part), I'd say it's still possible to compare them in terms of usefulness, efficiency, user-friendliness, technical achievement, and so on. Oh and yes, how "pretty" they are could be factored in as well, I suppose. Looks aren't really all that important when it comes to hacking tools, but there are a lot of eyesore utilities out there.

 

The thing is, the ability to properly make use of a utility given the scope of the game it edits is a lot more subjective than simply playing a Sonic hack. In a Sonic hack, the submissions are consistent—hacks of Sonic games, generally adhering to one single formula with plenty of established expectations and standards that can be easily judged. When it comes to utilities, though, its usefulness—and by extension the ease with which you're able to use it—depends on your own motivation, your interest in the material it edits, and your general understanding of what you're editing (music, models, art, etc).

I can tell you right off the bat as a prospective judge that I don't have an interest in 3D models and probably wouldn't want to... so, say, if MainMemory entered his SADX level editor, I'd probably bitch about how confusing it is because I've never taken any particular interest in modeling 3D environments for the game. On the other hand, someone who does have knowledge, interest, and experience in the field of 3D modeling would likely find it very intuitive and helpful in constructing those levels. Do you see the issue here?

It is much simpler to judge a hack's gameplay and components than the several arbitrary aspects of a utility that may or may not apply to the people in question asked to judge those utilities. Besides, putting up utilities against each other like that is stupid—they're made to serve a purpose, not enter a goddamned competition.

 

Well, no one said you'd be the only judge. Judges with expertise in a particular field of hacking would probably need to judge the tools in their respective categories, and compare notes.

Well now you're just being silly. Of course tools are meant to serve a purpose, and not to enter a competition. But don't you think some great tools deserve recognition? I know for a fact there are some new tools that come out that even you orgasm over. Imagine if MarkeyJester's SMPS editor were to be released tomorrow; don't you think he'd deserve some sort of reward for that? I mean, that tool alone uses your own argument against you: I know nothing about music hacking, and with a tool like that, it'd probably be easy as pie, even for me.

The thing is, some people do what no one else has been able to do, or what no one else has thought to do, and create something that significantly evolves the field of rom hacking. To think of those tools as "just" tools and not great achievements is to seriously deprive them of the recognition they deserve.

EDIT: Perhaps the hacking contest isn't the place for utilities. But I do think they deserve something.

 

If they're great tools they're going to get their recognition. If their tools aren't shit and their intent was to release it to the public, their reward would be that people are using their tools. You don't need an a faux trophy in order to be recognized, your recognition comes from the products (lack of a better word here) people made using your tool.

 

Well not to be a dick and continue a now-hopefully-dead debate, but the exact same thing could be said of rom hacks themselves.

That just means you've created/are creating a hacking utility, not that you're creating or have created the best thing since bread. In other words: it's not a reward, it's a title.

 

Of course it can.

But this is about judging a hack based on how good of a game it is based on several factors. Throwing tools in a contest where the judges are judging what makes a good game is retarded.

It's like bringing a pig to compete in a sheep dog trial.

If you honestly want this, its best to make this into its own separate thing with judges who would know what they're talking about. You don't bring the gaming magazine's reviewer the development kit and source code of the game to judge it. The fuck are they going to do with it?

 

This. Also, your analogy is flawed. Because it's not like entering a cat into a dog show, it's like entering the dog trainer and his/her methods into a separate category of the dog show.

 

Man, you totally ruined my Babe reference.

That's not cool man.

 

It only occurred to me that you might have been referencing something afterward, so sue me.

 

May wanna fix that for consistency purposes there. *Points at the mentioning of 3D games*

 

Wow, some can of worms. Sorry.

What I guess I meant was a nomination (not entry) category, something like "awesome contribution to the hacking scene". A disassembly, tool, newly-cracked format or even an excellently-written guide would deserve it.

And did I see Tweaker implying that reviewing hacks isn't subjective?

 

No, you didn't. No idea where you got that from.

 

Not to be off topic, but I'm not very good with 3D stuff, and I wrote the thing. I don't know how to use modeling programs, and I had to consult many resources just to get it to work. 3D is not my thing. Most of SADXLVL is copied from the Internet and Dude's model guide. And I can use it just fine.

But whatever, I don't need an award to tell me I made a nice program(s) (or hack either). Although to be perfectly honest, I don't think I made a very good hack.

Also, I wouldn't nominate SADXLVL for "Easy to use". Without readme.txt it's impossible.

 

My bad, I misread this statement a little. I still beg to differ, especially given my other point about a possible nomination for an outstanding achievement award. But whatever, it's been overruled and decided against....


...plus MainMemory and Dude would probably have a tough fight over who won. :3

 

Well if a cat can't enter a dog show, why not have a cat show?

I personally don't even have any stake in the matter, as I'm not a utility programmer or anything. I could never do anything like that in an infinite number of years. Whatever though. It sounds like the best idea ever to me, but... Sometimes you just get ideas that you think are amazing that everyone else hates. Life moves on.