I think that stems from him cobbling the inbetween frames together from existing pieces of the other frames, rather than drawing new frames. Unless I misunderstand him, I don't think he's suggesting we actually use those, but rather suggesting how they could look.
<!--quoteo(post=191963:date=Apr 30 2008, 04:40 AM:name=SillyJonna)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SillyJonna @ Apr 30 2008, 04:40 AM) [/quote] That smile is a bit much. The original mouth was ok but I think it's a little too high The In-between frames for Sonic'd make good references, but it'd be nice to see a quick example of 'em in action with the final animation Even if they are re-jiggered and not vector animation, the general flow'll be good enough to make a decision
I think your putting words into my threads so to speak and just want to clear the air. I'm not actually insulting anyone, mereky using that analogy. I certainly did not call anyones artwork bland and unispiring, in actual fact I have a lot of respect that have the patience to sit down and do these frames so well. So I don't believe that I am flaming anyone at all, at least that wasn't my intention. I do feel that opintions different to my own are shot down or ignored and that somethings aren't open to discussion at all, which is a shame as this kind of deconstruction is how things get improved . Due to this as well as your haste to jump down my throat, il be withidrawing any intention I had of contributing, but I wish the team and the project all the best. cheers
<!--quoteo(post=191361:date=Apr 28 2008, 03:38 AM:name=Death of Rats)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Death of Rats @ Apr 28 2008, 03:38 AM) I stuck to the original color pallet, I'm sure much more could be done with it if I stretched my coloring legs a bit.[/quote] How did I miss this? It's 'squiggly' and done freehand, but... I love it. Yep, this'll have no bearing on the project, but I believe in giving credit where it's done. Death of Rats, you wouldn't mind doing Silver Sonic's standing frame would you, as a request? ^^
You don't have to withdraw from the project, uk_resistant. As one of the coordinators of this project (and a fellow Londoner!) please let me assure you that your contributions are truly valued. Sometimes tempers become heated in these forums due to fiery passions, but I feel members are gradually learning to tame this. I reiterate, as I often do, that polite and civil discussion between all of our members is emphasized and encouraged.
No offense to you personally, but if you can't handle the heat, then stay out of the kitchen. If you want something done—if you truly believe that it is better for the project as a whole—then fight for it. Argue your point strongly and firmly, and back it up with decent enough reasoning to make people see your point of view. I see you telling us to base some artistic inspiration based on the comics; this is a personal viewpoint that you follow, but many people consider the comic to be non-canon (and it pretty much is), as well as a matter of personal taste in regards to style. Cooljerk's argument (which is one that I agree with) is that if we were to all of a sudden switch our style to that of the comics, there will be many conflicting views on the subject. This is pretty much spot on. However, one thing that I think we can all agree on is that the original Sonic 2 style is something that we all liked. After all, that's why we're even bothering to show interest in this project, isn't it? Cooljerk, I, and likely others believe that, for this reason, it's the best decision to heavily base our design on the original sprites. That doesn't make us "drones," and it doesn't make our work uninspired; in fact, I'd say it's more inspired because our intention is to be as faithful as possible whilst still looking refreshing, which I think is a goal we've achieved with our current style. So, while I would rather encourage you to stick around and do whatever, if your views for this project aren't the same as what we have in mind, then I can't say you'll enjoy it. This is my take on the situation, though, and I like to think it's a reasonable one worth considering. It doesn't annoy me more than to see people get pissy and take off when things don't go their way, but I always think there's a more reasonable solution to all of this.
I'm actually beginning to agree with uk_resistant on the art here. For the benefit of people who take opinions personally, stop reading right now; I'm opinionated as hell. So. Admittedly, there is a lot of focus on getting the art 'exact', which is pretty damned admirable. However, getting it 'exact' seems to be an imprecise art -- some of us 'imagine' Sonic 2 HD to be something more than simply an upscaled rendering; there was something about the low-resolution sprites combined with our own imaginations and interpretations of things -- for example, Knuckles and Sonic's 'mouths' - this seems to be one of the very few examples of people interpreting things in this project. Like, when I was trying at the Emerald Hill graphics, and nobody (This includes myself) could get them 'right' attempting to HD them with a little added flourish. The reaction I personally had was "We can't. They have to look different in a way, I'll try some stuff", and I was almost going to draw the grass blade-by-blade (Seriously) in order to get the most stunning-looking striped grass I could, even if it would look different from the image on screen. This project's general reaction? To keep it exact, and keep it in vectors. Firstly, what the hell? 'Exact' can't exist without this basically looking like a glorified flash game; the original was of a very limited palette from limited hardware, and translating this same palette will look ridiculously dated no matter HOW high resolution it is. I personally would like to see more contrast on the main Sonic sprite, awesome though it is, it looks like an accomplished fan-rendering. Which is exactly what it is. Keeping it to vectors? Honestly. How can anyone not see how much this is a bad idea? Things like texturing (Hello there, Aquatic Ruin) and little embellishments like rust (Which should be added to Chemical Plant Zone, no questions asked. Not an awful lot, but it should be present. Why? Metals plus liquid) will be awfully hard to get not looking awful with vectors. "They're needed so that they can be up/downscaled properly". Hello, what decade is it? Surely all our video hardware is capable of filtering things? I mean, if this is being redrawn at a resolution greater than the average (Which is still 1024x768 IIRC), scaling it down wouldn't harm it at all. I did that Alex Kidd rendering at 4x it's eventual size, and downscaling it didn't harm the overall image one bit, really. It was still "the same, but HD". Incidentally, I have a (semi-related) question; how many qualified designers do we have on the team here? =P
Aye, but Sonic 3 sort of lost the focus; Sonic was initially a throwback to 1920's/30's cartoon character design (In the first game, he looks and behaves very similarly to Felix the Cat circa 1925. I even have a cartoon on DVD where he runs around a curved tree trunk, the same as Sonic would a loop!), and Sonic 3's design sort of lost this with the tiny, soulless pupils Sonic had. I feel like stating, despite my previous post, I'll play and love this project no matter what the outcome; even if I'll have felt like it could have been done better.
LSH: One of the view things I actually agreed that needed to be re-interpreted was the level art. There's no debating that. However, in the case of the character badnik, etc art, keeping things exact is the best way to keep everyone satisfied, including ourselves. I'd like to think even our small modifications have given Sonic a bit more visible personality, and that's something I'm content with. I'll be honest, though—I actually still prefer Yarharhar's Sonic better. I really do. I think it was a work of art, for sure; it showed off Sonic's attitude and general shape perfectly. It was radiant with personality, and even moreso in the process involved in making it. I think we should have adopted that method rather than going with the vector route, personally, but I'm guessing that the vector route is our best shot outside of it, considering everybody who has pitched in work so far.
I guess it's all a matter of seeing various examples and choosing the best looking. Few people has submitted backgrounds at the moment, and nobody has done them CG (which some of us would really like to see), so I don't think anything regarding the BGs has been ruled out yet.
Just went back and looked at Yarharhar's; you're referring to when he drew the pencil rough as a base? His rendering was awesome; quite pointy and angular compared to the current favourite, it did capture more attitude. Which Sonic always had, even without voice acting, grinds and Nikemouth. Yeah, I agree with his method being a better way to go.
Thanks for all the suggestions! About the inconsistencies between my sprite and the original, I based certain details off the sprite, and some off the artwork for Knuckles. I picked the details from each that I thought would suit him more. If this really bothers people, then I can just make him look like the sprite only. That white part on his chest is a stripe-type thing, not a necklace. I adjusted that part of the eye a little: Is that enough? I didn't want to go overboard with it. Also, this is the thing about the mouth. When I look at the sprite, I see a cocky smirk, just as others do, and that's what I was going for with mine. Though he doesn't have the smirk in his artwork, I feel that it suits his personality much better. This should show you what I'm talking about: I believe that, because of the irregular shading in that area of his muzzle, a smirk is implied. When those two brown pixels are colored black, the smirk is quite visible. If the general consensus is that he should not have a smirk, then I will change it, but I truly believe that it suits him better.
He should have a smirk just not like that one. Maybe it should be a little less curved and/or moved back a tad.
Apologies if this sucks, but I felt Knuckles didn't look quite menacing enough, so I decided to make his eyes a bit squintier and fix the smirk:
I think those are very good ammendments WOTS, the eye especially, nice job. The crease on the top of the smile might be a tad too wide though, I'm not sure.
<!--quoteo(post=192124:date=Apr 30 2008, 02:55 PM:name=Athelstone)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Athelstone @ Apr 30 2008, 02:55 PM) Before and after. Any better?
It's coming along quite nicely, good work. Here's a couple of things I'd modify a little: -I'd make his eye a bit rounder. -The outlines on his dreadlocks look a bit excessive in some parts. -Some shapes in his fists can be improved a little. -He seems to have a girly eyelash at the end of his eye. Try making it a bit less noticeable. -I'd try to make his soles look flat, without losing the perspective. This one's gonna be a bit tough... EDIT: Pic showing some of those changes:
Also, shouldn't his feet be flat at the bottom? Also, shouldn't socks be shapped differently? (I'm not sure though...)
