The Rev A was just used as an example (I don't know if there are different versions of the game or not), but it's better than assigning arbitrary version numbers to everything, which seems to be the norm now :/ Where do they come from?! The only difference between no-intro policy and what I want to do is that for Japanese releases I want to name ROMs after their names on Sega's various master lists rather than on the front of the box, but if the front of the box has furigana I'd use that as well (hence Keiou Yuugekitai instead of Keio Yugekitai; the sequel's box has furigana). An alternative provision for translations on spines (which they seem to do too) might need to be in place but I'll figure that out in the distant future when I can actually do this shit.
It's not for clarification but for stating that the game was released in Japan, regardless of the cover or the content or even the language of the game. Rev A B C D is indeed pointless, I wonder who came up with that. Probably some ROM kiddie. Actually, it kinda makes sense there, cause not all systems have unique identifiers in the ROM, and even if they do, they may not be updated inbetween versions - so you are stuck with copy A and B. Regardless, it does not reflect actual versions. And it's completely useless for CD media, where you have a dozen different identifiers to use, from header version numbers to ISO9660 file dates. Because Sega's own master lists are infallible, especially when they are making lists about consoles their current staff barely even heard about. They just copy those lists off of google search either, or from some previously released japanese console guidebook. Often the stuff on the spine is also different, so you have 2-3 different titles: the transliterated kanji/kana original, the tranlated / transliterated stuff on the spine (which is often badly translated), or a different localized brand name they did/did not use for the series... and vica versa combinations of all of those. ex.: some Gundam game on the Saturn: - on the cover: Mobile Suit Gundam Side Story ????????? - on the spine: ??????????????????? - transliterated: Kidou Senshi Gundam Gaiden II ~Ao wo Uketsugu Mono~ - translated: Mobile Suit Gundam Side Story 2 ~The Successor of the Blue~ All of them equally correct. Another example: - on the cover: ???????????????????? - transliterated: Full Cowl Mini Yonku Super Factory - actual correct english title used by the ENTIRE BRAND: Full Cowled Mini Yonku Super Factory - english title used by the brand TODAY: Fully Cowled Mini 4WD Super Factory Or there's ClockWerx, also ????????, also Clock Works, all three titles exchanged in the title, game header, cover, and so on. Figure that one out!
Right, this was something I was planning on doing for the Sega Retro wiki. I know the master lists are infallible but so far I've only seen problems with the serial numbers and in some cases genre being wrong — I'll sort that out when I get to it. The Sega lists pre-Dreamcast are all archived so there's no point in complaining to them about it =P I only want to go with the Sega list as it's good enough and it's not ambiguous... And yes I prefer transliteration over translation, but again :| I have no idea; I just wnat to go with something predictable and unambiguous, even if it is wrong in some specific cases (and again, I'm going to weed those cases over time). Full Cowl is a weird case as I can only find the limited edition on the Internet; I'll have to get back to that one preferably in person someday and see what that situation turns out to be.
Full Cowled only had that limited edition and no other. The company releases model kits, and the game itself comes with one as well. Some games have different serials on the cover and in the game header, this is normal if that's what you mean. Some games also got multiple releases, each with a different serial number, but the game data on the disc was unchanged (like games packed with the ram cart, which had a normal cd-only release as well with a different serial). There are also budget releases (satakore, dorikore), which got their own serial but the game data was often different... or not, sometimes the games had bugfixes in the satakore/dorikore re-releases, and used the new serial. Sometimes they had bugfixes but still used the original releases serial number. And so on. I have no idea which serials the sega master lists use.
I meant that some serials have typos in them =P Only in two cases did I see them completely wrong (one I forget, the other is Full Cowl given what you just said). Again, I am in the process of verifying everything with the information I have now for Mega CD and Dreamcast (which is on Sega's current catalogue system, not an archive, and so far the only inconsistencies seem to be different genres on the search results and catalogue pages for some very few games) and can do more specific checking once I do actually start making rips.
Version numbers come from the game's header in old SEGA games, and from the ROM chips in Nintendo games (at least in NES games, not sure about the others). If no info like that is present, there's many other things that can be used like some date within the game's files, or the difference itself ("level-up fix", "alternate music") without making nonsensical things up. But that's still bloating the file name without a true reason, like putting "(cartridge)" after every Mega Drive ROM ever. Anything that gets added after the title is supposed to be additional information for clarification purposes, something that isn't needed in this case, because there's no overseas games with that title.
You are missing the point: how do you know that that game is japanese or not japanese to begin with? OK, let's assume because of the japanese title. So you have this file: Wily wombat.rar How do you know what region it was released in? Totally not obvious, since it's a fully english game released in japan only. In fact, how would you know that *any* of the games were released in what country to begin with? It's not like you know from the top of your head 5000+ game titles and regions. Or do you have a "search this title in google" link next to each game title in this hypothetical database we are talking about? I don't think you've thought this through.
...How is knowing the game's region relevant for a file name, when there's no other version of the game with that same title? That kind of info belongs somewhere else because it's irrelevant for knowing which game it is, which is the purpose of file names. Seriously, that would be like naming your PC games something like "Grand Theft Auto 4 (World).exe".
PC games usually aren't regionlocked though. Barring driver/os/codepage incompatibility issues, "Grand theft auto.iso" should work on a korean machine as it does on a portugese one. "Super Tempo.iso" however will only load on your japanese Saturn. You say that this is not needed in the file name and should be stored elsewhere: where else? On a offline/online complimentary database required for browsing the file collection? Because if you do that, you may as well name files as 1, 2, 3, 4 etc., since then the game title is just one more piece of metadata to look up. And again: you brought this up because "Keio yuugekitai" doesn't have an overseas release of the same name: How do we know that it's an overseas release to begin with!?
Didn't know this was about incompatibilities, since what we're talking about also happens with Japan-exclusive games that aren't region locked... In my oppinion, in the case of incompatibilities, that kind of info would belong in a folder name. Just like you don't mix SNES and SMS ROMs in the same folder because they're incompatible, you'd look into the "Japan" or the "USA" folder for games that aren't compatible in other regions. Speaking of, I believe the Goodtools have an option for creating regional folders, or at least used to. That makes a bit more sense than adding (U) (J) (W) to every ROM, in my oppinion. I'm sorry but I really don't get what you're asking...
Then you end up with seven unique folders (J, U, E, JU, JE, UE, JUE), and to be fair this isn't really a good way to categorize games. With the same criteria I could categorize games by just about everything that could be considered metadata.
More like 11 folders, in the case of the Mega Drive. =| But I personally find it more accesible than having everything in the same place. After all, if the Japanese version has a different name, having the overseas versions in the same place isn't going to help looking for it... And you also won't get the problem Meat Miracle mentioned about running into a game that's incompatible with the region you're looking forward to use. I think that's the cleanest possible way of naming ROMs, but it's just my oppinion, of course. EDIT: By the way, perhaps some mod could split this topic from the 20th post onwards? I'm noticing the off-topic got a bit out of hand, sorry.
Technically there are only 4 regions (domestic + NTSC, domestic + PAL, overseas + NTSC, overseas + PAL), and one of them isn't even valid (the only way you'll stumble upon it is with a console that has a region mod). But you need to take into account all possible combinations.
OK, I'm not entirely sure what you want to achieve here. Do you want all games per system to be in one folder? Do you want games for one system to be also split across regions? So like: - Sega CD\Keio Flying Squadron (E).rar - Sega CD\Keio Flying Squadron (U).rar - Sega CD\Keio Yuugekitai.rar having the (region) in there only for games that share the title, but not for the unique ones? That's stupid, because then you wouldn't know which games are J or E or U to begin with. This is what I was assuming for the entire time. But if you do this: - Sega CD\E\Keio Flying Squadron.rar - Sega CD\U\Keio Flying Squadron.rar - Sega CD\J\Keio Yuugekitai.rar This is more logical, and you can omit the (country) suffix as long as you don't accidentally move one file to a wrong folder! That's why I personally keep stuff with (System) (Region) suffixes, ON TOP of folders for regions based, both folders and suffixes based on their market release and not ROM header or some other wizardry. (game naming based on the game data + game naming based on the actual physical release is WILDLY different!) But in both cases you could also just list "Sega CD\Keio Flying Squadron (J).rar" or "Sega CD\J\Keio Flying Squadron.rar", because it's the exact same game, just released at a different region! And for the Saturn you have 16 regions, out of which 2 are invalid, 6 are reserved, and 8 that the machine can boot (JTUBKAEL). That gives you at worst 16 777 216 folders. In practice, a lot less were used though. J, T, E, U were the ones most commonly put in random orders. Some games inexplicably also used others, among them some high profile titles like the NTSC-U release of Daytona USA (header country code: BKUT), Die Hard Trilogy (PAL release: EAL, NTSC-U release: TUK). Some titles were also confusing: Golden Axe The Duel NTSC-J: JT, NTSC-U: UTJ (not JTU, but UTJ), Croc Legend of Gobbos NTSC-J: J, PAL: E, but NTSC-U: UJE. (I've only loosely checked up till the letter G, so there oughta be a handful of more) That's why I think it's completely pointless to sort crap by whatever BS is in the game header. Some games didn't even bother to change the headers between alternate regions, you have the japanese GS-xxxx serial for Virtua Fighter Kids in the European release. And you have regions that received 1 game in total: China for Myst, and Brazil for Riven. Do we really need a different folder for 1 single file each? Couldn't they go in just "Other"? Yeah, but if you look at the actual stuff that was released, you can see dozens of Chinese, Brazilian, Korean games, even if the disc data matched the stuff in the USA release. And then we have all the lovely EU countries, all getting different localized versions! That means we suddenly have La Mansión de las Almas Ocultas, Le Manoir des Ames Perdues, Mystery Mansion - Das Haus Der Verlorenen Seelen, Shinsetsu Yumemi Yakata ~Tobira no Oku ni Dareka ga...~, and finally: The Mansion of Hidden Souls! AND IT DOESN'T END HERE EITHER: The Mansion of Hidden Souls is split to The Mansion of Hidden Souls (USA) and The Mansion of Hidden Souls (UK)! All are fully legit, use different game data, and have their own serial suffixes indicating different regions. Solution 1: build a DB that lists crap by all the physical releases, separately listing crap for USA, JPN, KOR, BRA, CHI, EUR (generic), ENG, ESP, FRE, GER, IT, WHATEVER, ELSE, and then build a 2nd database that is dynamically linked into the first, and only lists the actual game data: so Nights into Dreams BRA and Nights into Dreams KOR all have a link saying: "game data same as (link)Nights into Dreams USA(/link). Solution 2: fuck it, let's have a beer. Ponder long enough on all of this, and you'll come to one of those two solutions, I can guarantee you.
Me too. Those folders were based on release regions rather than header values, or at least they tried to be. And I opt for the solution 2 for now.
Then, if they are MD/Genesis titles, they are wrong: you can't have Europe + USA because USA never had any Megadrive games, and Europe never had any Genesis ones officially released! See how fucked up this is? You can tell that I have more experience with this because I did that before I started writing that entire post.
Wait, how the hell do you reach that much? If you consider only the valid regions the system can boot from (because no other region would really work for starters), you get at most 255 possible combinations. Heck, even if you took into account all 16 possible regions, you'd have at most 65,535 possible combinations. To be fair, if you have an OS that supports symbolic links (e.g. Linux) and a script to generate the folders and the links, solution #1 sounds feasible. But c'mon, even if you could do that, in practice when you're looking for a game you care about at most two things: the system and the name. All that categorization will go to waste, really. So solution #2 it is, even if you could do #1.
I got it by going with solution 2 early on (and doing 8^8 (16 mil) instead of 8! (40320). However, that 8! only counts the total permutations for JTUBKAEL, and doesn't count for the fact that after the first character, the rest are optional. So with the empty char in mind, you have, uh, 8*(8!/2) maybe? And that's assuming that an empty space can happen in the last seven characters and, have it still followed by additional codes? I don't think that one is allowed, so if the empty space is the last char, than wouldn't we have something like 8! * 2? But if you do not count the order of each letter, than you are down to 8+7+...+2+1 = 36. Maybe.
The order of the letters shouldn't really matter since we only care about which regions are supported (since we're talking about compatibility), not in which order they're defined. In this case the amount of combinations is (2^n)-1, where n is the number of regions. With 8 regions, the count is (2^8)-1 = 256-1 = 255. The -1 is there so "no region supported" isn't counted, for obvious reasons =P I don't think the order of the regions even matters at all. Systems are only meant to support one region, so if there's anything region-specific, it'll be also system-specific.
Yeah, 2^8-1 sounds right. I have no idea where I got those numbers from. Order of regions doesn't count for anything more than having it documented. If you just batch run through every saturn game, you'd get a bunch of permutations about that for sure - you might just want to get the value as a binary switch of sorts instead of the letters themselves (so instead of grabbing JTE and UTJ, you'd have J = 1, T = 2, U = 4, E = 64, and record JTE as 67 and UTJ as 70). Whatever is this thing called...
