[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8rDZF2RQ1c[/media] [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXFDsB1ILTo[/media]
Avoided this thread at first thinking I wouldn't have to say anything, but I'm surprised to see no one has any solid plans for an actual evolution of the franchise, or really anything beyond "Gimme more of X in Y style". Jason nearly hit the core of what I want, though! Short answer: Longer answer: A 3D platformer with the sound and style of SCD, Chaotix and NiGHTS, the physics and obstacle-centric level layouts of Super Monkey Ball, an average breadth of SM64's Bob-omb Battlefield (at Sonic scale) and Sonic GDK's surface clinging and camera tracking. Proper answer: Stages should take the overarching form of a hemisphere so that all action ultimately flows downwards and towards the center. Rather it should be half a hemisphere since a full 360° isn't necessary, this shouldn't be an open world game. A lateral expansion solves the problem of incorporating multiple paths in the same 3D space (routes overlap at key points) without confusing the player as to where the exit is. Stage geometry should be 80% slopes, which are the only means of reaching top speed. There's a spindash button: Holding charges a spin, tapping initiates a roll. So long as the player is a ball, the game effectively becomes Super Monkey Ball without self-propulsion. Trajectory control diminishes when gaining velocity. Include unique character routes if you really want to go crazy. Also replace the homing attack with a trigger for a subtle magnetic jump so that you can reliably stomp enemies in 3D space, which makes this possible again. Also springs don't restrict horizontal movement while airborne. FULL DISCLOSURE SRB2 is honestly my favorite platformer and I like it way more than any Sonic game anyway. EDIT: My dream Sonic game is in this, somewhere.
I'd like for Sonic not to be a lame, unlikable dork. Apparently It's an unreasonably tall order. As for the games, I'd like them to be good.
The reason why no one wants an actual evolution of the franchise from its current state because, to put it bluntly, the franchise in it's current state sucks, but at one point didn't, and many people want to go back to that. Also the rest of the content of your post doesn't match up with the sentence I quoted - you seem to want "X in Y style", just like many others, rather than improving the franchise from its current state like what you suggested. If that is not actually what you meant by that, then I apologize for misinterpreting. I will admit that I am exaggerating a bit when I say that the current state of the franchise "sucks", I believe a more accurate term would just be "scrambled", and that it's also hard to even define what the current state of the franchise is as a result. I actually liked the gameplay of the "Boost Trilogy" (Unleashed, Colors, Generations) they had going there, but then Lost World takes a sharp left turn, and what I meant by "sucks" earlier is that if Lost World is an indication of the future direction of Sonic the Hedgehog, then the franchise is doomed, at least as far as how much I'll care about it. As I was saying however, we don't know what the future will be because of how they have two teams with overlapping development cycles, the point I'm getting to is what the hell has the Generations team been working on since? Is it going to be Lost World's spiritual successor (that's a bad thing), or is it going to be a fourth member of the "Boost Trilogy" that actually evolves the gameplay? Another thing though, the topic asks "What do you want Sonic to be". And when I answered that, I basically said I want a Sonic 4, which is something that we were promised back in 2010 but never actually got. I want a true Sonic 4 (doesn't have to be named so, but I mean in terms of a true spiritual successor), and I think we can all agree that it's something we all want. I don't want "Sonic Lost World 2" or "Sonic Team's new experiment" or "Boost Gameplay Game 4: has-some-good-aspects-but-falls-on-the-same-shortcomings-as-its-predecessors" or another "Generic Dimps Sonic game for handheld system". I'm tired of that crap, and I don't want an evolution of the franchise from its current state (by current state I'm referring to Lost World, not the "Boost Trilogy" which I actually don't think is that bad), I would much rather have a return to form.
"More of X in Y style"- the difference here is that what I've suggested has never been done before by anyone. There's nothing wrong with combining existing elements to describe a new product, and in reality that's all originality actually is, new permutations of past concepts. Of course the content of the post in no way hinges on that snide remark so feel free to not fixate upon it And honestly I think I'd rather have a fiasco like Sonic Boom than a return to form. The classic games were perfected with S3K and I'm sure that's ultimately why the founding members moved on. I don't want to play a game in a style I wore out 10 years ago, I want a new Mario killer. There's still plenty of things left to do in 3D that only Sonic can do, and if no one is going to act on that potential then I want Sonic to keep clownin'. I want more mine carts and incest.
I think Sega should kill off Sonic for a few years. Maybe take some time to think about what they want to do with the franchise and then come back with something great. I feel like these games keep constantly getting rushed out the door with half-assed ideas.
I've been meaning to leave a reply here for a while. This is the one question that we all have an answer to. First, let's talk about what Sonic has become. It's obvious that SEGA don't really know what they want Sonic to be themselves, which has led to games of varying quality, specifically over the last five years. Sonic Unleashed introduced us to a new style of gameplay in the daytime stages, but ultimately the game failed due to the juxtaposition of these levels with the dull, unimaginative and slow Werehog levels. This was the first instance of Sonic games with a split personality, and while this worked in Generations (Classic vs. Modern), I think SEGA should focus on perfecting one style of gameplay per installment; they can't please everyone by turning Sonic into something it's not. This approach to the series continued into Lost World (2D elements contrasted with tube sections) and we'll see it again in Sonic Boom, as we've recently found out. Even the daytime style of gameplay is mix of 2D and 3D, with Sonic Colours especially biased towards 2D. SEGA obviously know there's a problem or else they wouldn't keep feeling the need to "return Sonic to his roots", Sonic 4 being the primary example. Every game is trying to cram as many ideas in as possible, and in the majority of cases, the bad ones have outweighed the good ones. Sonic 4 was the chance to reconnect with the classic audience yet they still screwed up on an opportunity that really could have been fulfilled by a new Genesis/Mega Drive styled game. Sonic Team need a creative break, and hopefully Sonic Boom will allow this. Once they've had time to mull things over, they can get down to business: 1. Forget one main series game per year. It doesn't matter how long they take as long as the final product isn't garbage. The main releases will be supported by smaller releases, I.e. Hardlight's mobile games and retro rereleases. 2. Separate the series. Mixing styles and ideas just doesn't work in Sonic games. Release a classic 2D Sonic game that is just that, and do the same for the 3D ones. Do not shortchanges fans of the 3D games by adding a whole 'nother style of gameplay that no one wants. 3. Classic 2D Sonic games should play like classic 2D Sonic games, and we all know who does those best, hint hint Taxman and Stealth. Forget Sonic 4's lackluster attempt, we want an honest-to-goodness 2D Sonic game, just like 1, 2, 3&K. If SEGA put Christian Whitehead in charge of a new 2D Sonic project, only good things can happen. SEGA needs people who understand how the series should work. 4. 3D Sonic games can experiment, but one at a time. First SEGA could release another game that continued to fine-tune the daytime level design from Unleashed. The next game could be totally different and have an Adventure-esque feel. The style of gameplay introduced in Sonic Adventure could still work today as long as it wasn't plagued with characters or in the case of '06, glitches. No matter what style of play, quality is what really matters and both ideas could turn out great if executed correctly. At least while Sonic Team find their feet with the series, each game should stick to one thing, as it's currently as if the developers feel so insecure about what we know makes the series work, that they want to turn the games into something else entirely to make them appealing. 5. Make the most of legacy resources. If there's one thing that SEGA are effective at, it's ports and re releases. However, there's still a ton of Sonic-related material that is not readily available to the average consumer. Sonic Heroes was a so-so game, but a PC port already exists, and putting it up on Steam would be a smart business move. Nintendo's recent NES Remix and the upcoming Mario Maker are great examples of companies reusing old materials and it would be easy for SEGA to create new experiences by digging up gems from their back catalogue. I mentioned a Retro-engine styled port earlier, and this would be easily achievable as all of the resources already exist, people are willing to do it and there is a strong demand in the fanbase. While I'm on this point I'd also like to mention a potential mobile port of Sonic 3&K. SEGA should deal with whatever (supposed) legal issues they're facing and get it out there, and while they're at it, stick them on PC (And the eighth-gen systems since they're the only things that Sonic 1 hasn't been ported to yet). On a less important, more personal note, I'd like to see Sonic Adventure done properly. The 2010 port of a port of a port of a port is a monstrosity and a version more like SA2HD would be very welcome indeed. 6. Whatever sort of game SEGA come up with, it needs to be fun. This is probably the most important point. When SEGA come up with a revolutionary idea for a new title or gimmick, the first thing they should discuss is how fun it will be, not what new character they can shoehorn in. 7. The honourable mentions. This post is getting long, so I'm just going to throw in a few more things that I think would make sense. -No more Nintendo-like partnerships as they alienate fans. -More PC ports (they can only be a good thing) -No more Dimps (I don't even have to explain that one) -Keep up the Hardlight mobile releases- No matter what people say about freemium games, they are undeniably successful. -Even if the Wii U game turns out bad, Sonic Boom is a good thing. It's been a while since Sonic has captured the minds of children via TV. Plus, if the games are successful, SoA may gain more influence. -Bring back Classic Sonic for modern retro games... it's a no-brainer really. Well, there you have it. I hope you enjoyed my rant, assuming you read to the end. Those words were years in the making and I'm glad Retro has given me a place to spew them! :v:/>
I've been glancing at this topic for a while trying to think about how exactly to word this, and I think my ideal Sonic game would have level design comparable to Sonic Adventure 1's Sonic stages and Sonic Advance 1's gameplay structure. I say Sonic Adventure level design because, while I do quite enjoy the gameplay in the Sonic Unleashed "trilogy", there are legitimate gripes people have with them (like the linearity, at least throughout the first half of the game) and I can understand where those come from. My personal gripe is I don't think the Sonic Unleashed...-ish style of level design would lend itself well to characters that don't play almost exactly like Sonic. With Sonic Adventure on the other hand, the only complaints regarding the levels there (that I've seen presented, anyway), are that stuff like clipping through the ground happens more often than it should, and the camera being troublesome at times (I never personally experienced this issue, at least not while playing as Sonic, but opinions). But if this style of gameplay was given the polish of, say, Sonic Unleashed, then I'm preeeeetty sure those issues would happen much less frequently unless someone went out of their way to trigger them. That with a few extra character-specific stuff in certain areas would be great. Now, when I say Sonic Advance "gameplay structure" (not sure if I used the right term there, but bear with me) I'm talking more about the playable characters, their abilities, and their objectives. In Sonic Advance, every character has around the same base top speed, the same standard abilities (well...Amy sorta has equivalents), but have enough unique abilities to make them feel, well, unique. In my experience, the Sonic, Amy, Tails, & Knuckles setup is about as diverse as it has gotten before characters either started feeling too redundant (Shadow, Blaze, Cream, Metal Sonic, Rouge, Advance 2/Adventure 2 Amy, everyone in Heroes, etc.) or too...generic, I guess (Silver, Big, Gamma, Adventure 2 Tails/Eggman, Werehog, '06 Amy, etc). But again, that's just me. So yeah, those characters doing what they do best - getting to the end of the stage - would be what I'd like to see, gameplay-wise anyway. Super forms (at least for Sonic & Knuckles) in normal levels would be nice too, since it has been a trend in 3D games since Colors, thankfully. As for story, eh. I honestly don't really care about how complex it is or whatever, just as long as the writing is good and it mostly makes sense. For me, the Unleashed trilogy delivered in that regard. Also, Sonic 2 2013-esque multiplayer mode, because I always found it weird that in a lot of games in general really (aside from ones that focus on the multiplayer), you can't pick the same character in multiplayer mode when that's usually an extra mode in the first place...but I digress. (also b/c I like the Sonic 2 "scoring" system) Spoiler also classic jump sfx plz
I want Sonic to be a fast, fun blue anthropomorphic hedgehog, not wrapped in sports tape or trying to be Mario. Also I'd like for him to conform to some sort of physics, not some half-assed Dimps plastic-fantastic crap.
1) Respect the lore. I don't like the randomized stories of Sonic. I loved when Sonic actually had a story (Sonic 1 -> Sonic 3 & Knuckles), and things connected. Sonic Adventure 1 & 2 even respected the lore to varying degrees. Where's that new Mecha Sonic (Shown in Sonic Adventure)? Where's the Super Emeralds? Did all the Chao in the world just die? Sonic 4 was THE most dishonorable act SEGA has ever done, yet I actually wanted the future episodes just to see where they were taking the story. Though I'm sure it wasn't going to be far. 2) A fun Sonic game. Seriously, this is really all I want. I honestly don't even get excited anymore for releases, because I know there's an 80% chance the game will just be a mediocre mess. Just make some FUN Sonic titles -- if it's not fun, delay it or cancel it. Don't just play with the fanbase's emotions. It's so old.
To be totally honest, I would actually like to see a massive, open-world setting for Sonic, and focus the game more around Platforming, rather than Combat or Puzzles. Maybe mix in some SUPER-LIGHT RPG elements -- sort of like the Metroid Prime games, where maybe it's like "Hey, you found the SOAP Scorchers shoes, now you can grind on rails!", allowing you to access new areas, without necessarily leading you *to* those areas. Also, I would have Sonic run and jump totally at normal speed, just like Super Mario in any of his 3D games, until you do something like press and hold one of the Triggers on your controller, which activates Boost-mode. When boosting, though, moving Left or Right will only cause you to drift in that direction; to cut a really sharp turn, maybe you hold your Spin-Dash button, acting like the E-Brake in a Racing-game. Also, I really like the overall "tone" of Sonic Generations. Keep it fun, funny, and maybe even inject a little *more* humor in there, with more sarcasm and witty-banter. Do something like Monkey Island's brand of comedy, where it's all still kid-friendly, but also makes pop-culture references and nods to past games. Definitely, DEFINITELY go back to the "Modern" designs for Sonic and Knuckles, though. Tails, Amy, and Robotnik all look fantastic with their new Sonic Boom designs, though. Finally... The Chaos Emeralds; bring them back, but ***DO NOT*** tie them to the game's main Story. They should be completely, 100% optional for the main game, and acquiring all of them unlock kind of a "bonus chapter" for each character. I would probably focus on the three characters from Sonic 3 & Knuckles, but I would also be fine bringing Amy into the mix, but even that would be a little crowded, so definitely no more than that. And give each character a TOTALLY UNIQUE Super-form. None of this "Knuckles turns pink" crap!!! :P
Man, what I wouldn't give for another Sonic Unleashed. Yeah, it wouldn't have to be a sequel, and the whole Werehog thing wouldn't be necessary, but bring back the tone of the day stages and make them the core of the game by adding more gimmicks and giving them a few more challenging parts. Add a few more characters and give them stages, like the way '06 did it without drowning out the fact that Sonic was the main character, and this would be good to go. Say, Knuckles' could be drop-in replacements for the Werehog stages (only some of them have to be at night) and he could beat-'em-up and overcome obstacles. I'm sure there could be occasional Tails and Amy stages with a gimmick, like flying the Tornado, fighting in machines, and brief missions like finding an item and puzzle-solving. Shadow should also be in the game, and his stages would be somehow along the lines of SA2 with certain missions sometimes. (No guns, though. Sure, it was kinda cool, but still, I think he's gotten over that big tantrum he must have been having throughout the game...) The theme would be similar to Sonic Unleashed with a bit of humor and sarcasm here and there without totally messing everything up. I certainly don't like the recent Mario influence on things, and I think that whoever was the lead producer of Lost World must have played Mario Galaxy and 3D Land WAY too much. Colors and Generations did a pretty good job of preserving Unleashed's gameplay while adding specific twists to things, and I like that. Although I don't own the REAL version of Generations (only the stupid 3DS version, I hate SEGA that they decided to make a ridiculously simple, stupid, and watered-down version to trick people who don't own expensive systems into believing that at least a little bit of hope existed for them), I've played it at a game store and it was awesome. That's my opinion on things; my two cents, if you will. (Well, that's another two cents I'll never get back. )
I'd take it back to basics. If I were in charge I'd spend a good deal of time doing nothing. I'd observe the current state of the franchise. I'd let whatever is in development continue, and I'd take a good look at sales figures, past, present and projected, and other market research. Ultimately I think I'd take the following approach unless proven otherwise: 1) Go back to the basics which created this successful franchise in the first place. I'd commission a true sequel to the Genesis games. I'd keep the art style exactly the same. I'd get in staff who worked on the originals to consult on the project and maybe even hire them to pick up their tools if they wanted to, and help create the new game. If research suggested it'd struggle as budget boxed retail (fair chance) then I'd offer it as a digital download. However it'd be nice to offer a boxed product, even if only a special edition with a nice high quality old school controller. Retro does sell these days, so who knows. 2) Keep the modern franchise going at the same time. It has its fans. I'd insist on a quality review though and look at what lessons can be learned from the classic games, have some of their creators come in as consultants, and have a damn good look at how Nintendo made the transition to 3D so successfully successfully. 3) Keep the Olympics/racing franchises ticking along nicely and earn that cash. 4) Set to work creating a new platformer for iPhone/Android that truly takes advantage of touch screen hardware. In future, evolve the classic series into a similar style that Nintendo has today with New Super Mario bros.
I'd really like a new 2D game to have a LittleBigPlanet/Mario Maker style level editor. Seriously I think the ability to make and share your own levels would be fucking awesome. You can sell extra characters and whatever if you need the money, SEGA.
Two things. For the 2D games, I, like many, want a real Sonic 4, a logical progression from classic Sonic. This could involve more complex level design, a better flow, a better utilization of multiple characters. The game that came closest to looking like a progression, for me, was Sonic Advance 3, but I didn't think it was very much fun. Still, similar character interaction and a larger, more cohesive world might be one way to build on it. Very few 2D revivals do anything like this. New Super Mario Bros. doesn't feel at all like a successor to Super Mario World; the game that really built on that title's ideas was Super Mario 64, but they haven't gone back and revisited the concepts in 2D. Roughly the same thing has happened with Sonic, except, well, Sonic 3 and Knuckles stands alone at the top of the pack, and no 3D game has yet built on it. Which brings me to my next point. I don't mind Sonic Generations at all. In fact, the boost-inspired 3D gameplay is pitch perfect for 3D Sonic, and I actually enjoyed those levels a good deal more than the 2D ones. I wouldn't mind them taking things in a more open direction, though. Both Sonic Adventure games did give you upgrades, but you didn't really use them the way you would use upgrades in, say, a Metroid game. I actually think this would be a good idea, and it could help the game maintain a natural flow between levels that Sonic is known for. It wouldn't necessarily need to feel like, say, Mario 64 or Banjo-Kazooie; it could still largely be made up of linear paths, but upgrades would allow you to explore alternate routes. This game may seem like an awful example, but I like the structure of Jet Force Gemini, and I think it could work for a Sonic game with alternate characters/ permanent power-ups. Force linear progression, then allow the player to go back and explore, unlocking a "true" ending. Again, in practice, this could still feel like a "proper" 3D Sonic game. As for aesthetics, I'd like them to stick as closely as possible to the classics visually, preferably Sonic 2. I've never had a problem with the soundtracks of the 3D games, and I think they're a natural evolution from the classic 2D style. That said, I wouldn't mind them bringing Nakamura back for some pop-infused tracks.
I liked the 'epic' Sonic games. '06 would've been great if it wasn't rushed and awful. Generations really hit on a strong gameplay formula. I'm curious to see what happens after Lost World. The return of classic Sonic has been neat, but modern edgy Sonic is fine with me. I'd also like to see the return of fields like Station Square. A polished and fun Sonic is all it'll take to part me and my money.
Honestly, I would love if Sonic was the Guren Lagann of video games. Something that I thought was always a quality of Sonic, or at least tried to be, was the sense of "this is fucking AWESOME." EVERY Sonic game up to Lost World had a sense of spectacle to it, where it tried to wow the player with something fun and something huge. And really that's what made Sonic a standout to a lot of people; it wasn't that the games were fast, but they were INSANE. Hell this kind of insanity was probably the most evident in Sonic 2, where Sonic now in addition do his speed gains the superpower of charging in place, and now the game becomes a parody of Star Wars and DBZ. It knew what it was and had fun with it. Now, if the games were to take that insanity and crank it up to 11, and go to the caliber of some of of Gainex's work? Hell yes. Something Gainex tends to work well with is making shit look innocent and just flat out stupid, with "fuck logic" written everywhere, but then having shit get real near the end in such a way your suspension of disbelief is maxed out. In terms of general asthetic, thats what I think Sonic should be. No super srs grimdark shit for the sake of it, not Sonic Boom's "hey look I'm a superhero and everything I do that's suppose to be amazing is every day work for me also I'm an unlikable clod" humor, but pure, concentrated AWESOME.
I love Gurren Lagann, but I've never once considered how Sonic has elements that could easily be a parallel to it. This is a fantastic idea!
