Discussion in 'Fangaming Discussion' started by Lapper, Mar 18, 2012.
[Was to be a fan-game which made a "better" Sonic 4. Project is cancelled]
Looks like you're off to an excellent start! With enough creativity and ingenuity, this could become something truly memorable. Keep up the pace!
I call bullshit, only because the quality of these graphics you have are top-notch. No way you did this in a day ;_;
Engine looks alright, what with the slope detection and the jumping-from-a-slope shenanigans. If you get this finished, major props. I just hope you make the stages look seperate enough from their rehash counterparts to make them enjoyable :P
As an artist mind telling me what methods you used to get your art to look like that, even in PM? They look hawt
DANG! THIS IS AMAZING! o0o About features, are other characters playable or is it just Sonic? Homing attack could be a move to unlock.
Sometimes I surprise myself, but I really did do them in a day. Well, I edited the log afterwards, and recolored the grass, but still.
EDIT: To reveal the characters now would ruin the surprise. Make of that what you will.
As for homing attack, most likely not. But, if there is enough demand, prehaps.
It might be cool if you went spelunking around for ideas here. There were some neat concepts, like that fire and ice level.
What're you going to do for music? I hope you'd be going for a 90's inspired soundtrack.
I've been waiting for someone to bring up a project like this.. especially after SEGA's fiasco. I recommend you make original stages and music, or at least different enough from being complete rehashes. Ignore everything that happened in the (unfortunately) official Sonic 4, and start from scratch, which I'm assuming was your plan to begin with. All in all though, I actually wanna see this finished cause damn... this shit looks sexy
Oh, I forgot about that old project, Thanks for reminding me!
As for the music, it depends whether I end up making some myself. If it's me, it'd probably be very genesis-like (hopefully more like Generations remixes than Sonic 4), but I'll wait and see how the zones turn out and think about what style would suit better.
I think if we found someone that could emulate the style of Michael Jackson's music from the Dangerous era, we'd be golden as far as music goes.
But maybe throw a bit of a modern house touch in there too.
What would I like to see?
Well firstly, I'd actually like to see the homing attack. It's all good and well for people to dismiss it because of how Sonic 4 handled it, but if you're trying to make your Sonic 4 a game which feels like it progresses in the same way the originals all did, then you'd have to include it. Sonic CD introduced the Super Peel Out, Sonic 2 introduced the standard spindash, Sonic 3 introduced the insta-shield, and Sonic 4 should include something else, and that something else should be the homing attack.
I'd like to see it implemented in a way which would suit the original style of the Mega Drive games- Megamix had a decent one which didn't look too out of place. If you've also played Sonic Advance 2, you'll know that a homing attack was implemented there very well- it never hindered gameplay, but made killing some enemies really awesome. It was an unexpected dash which just ploughed through the badnik, and if you did it well you could maintain some speed. Sometimes you could use it to stop yourself flying off the edge if the bad guy was close, and that's essentially what an additional move should be about- choice. There's never a time when you HAD to use the insta-shield, it was just there for you if you thought you needed it.
What would I really like to see? The style of the originals continued and expanded on in that 'classic' Sonic way, which from your image I can see you're doing. I'd like to see Sonic and Tails back as playable characters, and perhaps including a 'new' character. For example, having Amy as a final playable character would expand upon what Sonic 3 offered, without having to add another pointless character which wouldn't fit the original universe. Classic Amy hasn't been playable, and pre-Adventure we never really saw too much of her.
I'd also really like to see some real music. Either do it Mega Drive style entirely or do something akin to Sonic CD's.
Lastly, I'd consult some people (maybe even make a poll or topic) on what tropes there could posibly be that haven't already been covered. Each classic Sonic game introduced brand new tropes every time. I could name a few now that we didn't see: a western desert zone, a sea water zone (maybe a coral reef or something, or even an underwater Robotnik base, like the Wing Fortress under the sea) etc. Think of stuff that's original. Who the hell saw Oil Ocean Zone coming? Things that are synonymous with the message that Dr Robotnik is polluting a green and lush land would be great. Maybe a power plant exploded and decimated the landscape? Accidental Atrocity Zone? There could be chemical spillage, fire, sharp metal and spikes at odd angles, and half battered enemies malfunctioning at you. What about a zone where Robotnik teleports you to a special stage-like zone in some freak experiment, and you have to escape it as an actual level? You'd have shit like the background warping and morphing in to fish, and patterns, and flashing colourful lights with big neon signs etc.
Anyway, yeah, that's my input. Really like your concept art by the way.
I was thinking of possible new moves I could add, I won't go into them because I haven't considered them very deeply, but none of them were the homing attack. I don't really like the homing attack, it just moves somewhere for you. I can't give a detailed reason why, but I just think it's wrong.
Also, I'll let you know I'll be including all the well known tropes, and inventing quite a few as well, in fact, I already have. I'm certain you won't be disappointed.
Maybe a wall jump? Even an extended skid to break down doors or walls? You could activate it by just pressing *OPPOSITE DIRECTION* just once as you're running a top speed (instead of holding it down), so Sonic does an animation where he puts his foot to the side whilst skidding, breaking down barriers with that rather than by stubbing his little toes.
Because we all know Sonic shouldn't break stuff just by running in to it. That was Knuckle's job.
Took the words right out of my mouth.
To add on, when it comes to everything, especially the concept of each stage and what you will name each, do not overthink it. Don't make up shitty names like White Park Zone or Sylvania Castle Zone.. keep it simple while at the same time creative. Don't make a name for a stage, let the stage make a name for itself, if you get what I'm trying to say. Have a proper transition from one stage to another as we all saw in S3K. Give it a storyline that makes it feel like a true sequel to S3K, while at the same time, delivers a sense of originality.
Wall jump is actually my favorite idea, it's much more dynamic than the other ideas I thought of. Think wall jumping between moving walls, or something sharp moving down the walls so you have to be careful when you walljump and where you land on the other wall.
So many ninjas. I haven't thought much about the names. Although I find it hard to think of names that feel right, but really, when I think about it, they don't have to. I mean, Clock Work zone. If I had thought of it, I wouldn't like it, but in Sonic 1 I would think it is fine. But perhaps it was rubbish because it wasn't used. Mind you, Scrap Brain it pretty bad.
Sonic 4 as I imagine it would not have homing attacks. In fact, it would likely disregard anything the series has offered since 1998 as well as all the western experiments like Sonic 3D and Sonic R. And you'd ignore Sonic CD and 8-bit outings and all sorts, for the same reason Sonic 3 ignored them.
Your current stuff and scrapped Michael Jackson tunes capture that period rather well. I think the key is to avoid the temptation of listening to most Sonic games and take Sonic Jam as a close approximation of what a "proper" Sonic the Hedgehog game from 1996/1997-ish would look like.
Most importantly you shouldn't listen to the actual Sonic 4 at all because not a single idea it put forward was good.
Personally, I'd want a Sonic 4 to take fresh ideas on new tropes. I really like the art style of the picture you've got up there, but it just screams Emerald Hill Zone 2.0. All the classic Sonic games had similar tropes, EG a green level to begin with, but always took a different way of approaching them. Of course it's too early to tell where it's going at the moment. I personally think a lush, perhaps misty in places Amazonian forest would be a neat idea for a level that hasn't really been done yet. It would lead for great room to have swinging vines, high platforming paths on top of trees, water sections and sinking mud. Maybe Sonic could grab a parrot and be lifted to areas, which could either be an automatic A to B, or controlled by the player like the gliders in the GG games.
Wall jump might be a good idea if implemented well, but to me one of the joys of Sonic is its simplicity, and the one button play is part of its 'pick up and play' charm, in my opinion. It would take some careful balancing to make sure it didn't slow down the gameplay for people who want to speed through the levels (a right which must be gained by ability rather than FASTFASTFASTBOOSTERS), and I wouldn't want to be jumping towards a wall and accidentally stick to it. Knuckles can already jump between walls.
Also I'd like Sonic to look like he does in the intro to SCD, because to me that's the coolest fucking art style for him ever.
I wish this project the best of luck and hope it really is Sonic 4 as well all imagined it!
EDIT: Fuck the homing attack. Fuck it with a wall full of sandpaper cocks.
And hey, you could rationalise it canonically by claiming that the angularity in Sonic World was intentional!
What would like to see in Sonic 4?
*Fully hand-painted levels
*Buttery smooth, cartoony animation on characters (ala Sonic CD intro!)
*A return to the level structure of S3K, including:
*A brand new kind of special stage, or atleast an honest-to-good original twist on an old one
*Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles as playable characters
*Homing attack as a shield ability
If I think of more I suppose I could edit them into this post. I'm waiting for more info on UbiArt myself. I can't wait to *maybe* use it!
I'd like to see some inspiration from the Sonic OVA for at least one or or two levels. I would also love to see Metal Robotnik/Black Eggman as a boss.
Instead of using sounds from the MegaDrive, I'd prefer if the music sounded like the Japanese soundtrack of Sonic CD—house music. Maybe a mix of MJ's style from the Dangeous era and house. Both of those styles fit Sonic so well.
Can it have a Werehog? :P Kidding. But, yeah, I agree. Try to put in some OVA throwbacks, maybe that scrapped level from Sonic CD.
Separate names with a comma.