don't click here

Sonic 3 Development Lore: Unused Zone ID 0D, Prototype Sound Cue 2E, Concept Art Discussion

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by sayonararobocop, Feb 6, 2024.

  1. Looking at the Sonic origins take on angel island, the tall mountain isn't ice cap. They recolored the mountains to the left blue. There was also a Carnival might barrel on the right hand side implying it's tucked on the back or something. Also I think they stuck mushrooms between sandopolis and Marble Garden. Otherwise the chart is pretty close.
     
  2. Jaxer

    Jaxer

    Member
    283
    253
    63
    Reminder that the developers of Sonic Origins' menu were doing just as much guesswork as we are. South Island and Westside Island also have zone-specific setpieces thrown around pretty indiscriminately.

    The zones' placements there could be their canon locations nowadays, but they most likely aren't where they were meant to be located originally.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • List
  3. expansivelovestories

    expansivelovestories

    reality is profoundly synergistic Member
    45
    23
    8
    That is a good point; i interpreted it as being like the equivalent of an overworld map, but it really isn't.

    It is fun to notice how the zones' background art was allowed be thematically beautiful and immersive for each environment, rather than matching the details of this sprite version of the island.

    Of course also, whether the zone art designers actually saw the sprite is unknown unless it has ever been talked about in some kind of interview or questionairre!!
     
  4. Mastered Realm

    Mastered Realm

    Member
    3,831
    558
    93
    -
    The earliest look at the island we got is the version featured in the Sonic 3 Title Screen.

    [​IMG]
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  5. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

    Member
    2,378
    980
    93
    Unless you were a Japanese player and looked at the manual before playing the game.

    JP_Angel_Island.jpg
    Curious how close it feels to the interpretation I posted. I guess they must have used that map from the manual as a basis for the endgame sprite, albeit expanding it to accommodate the S&K zones.

    Also kinda weird how the S3 title screen seems to depict two islands. Or was it all Angel Island, and it was originally going to be a bit deeper into the sea, causing one of its valleys to be submerged?
     
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2024
    • Like Like x 4
    • Informative Informative x 3
    • List
  6. Blastfrog

    Blastfrog

    See ya starside. Member
    Wasn't there concept art of a map of the island? I think it even indicated Flying Battery (in its original spot, too). A cursory search on my end revealed nothing, however. I might just be misremembering, but I could swear there was something like that at some point.
     
  7. RDNexus

    RDNexus

    Member
    I've been scavenging Sonic world's maps for quite a while now, but never saw anything like that...
     
  8. expansivelovestories

    expansivelovestories

    reality is profoundly synergistic Member
    45
    23
    8
    Here is something special :) :) If you are busy skip to around 4' 43" and watch for a few minutes from there. or if you're really busy, 5' 20" !!
    another amazing moment begins at 9' 14" !!

    https://anix.to/anime/future-boy-conan-z1l2/ep-3

    I tried searching to see if it is already mentioned anywhere on Retro but this discussion from the Sonic 2 thread, and one anime thread, are the only mentions I can find of Future Boy Conan.

    This third episode from April 1978 does seem to mirror some of the most special elements of Sonic 3; arriving on the island, and the many unexpected encounters with Knuckles, and them becoming friends. So much so that it would be just as intriguing if it is coincidental!!

    But potentially there is some sort of real Miyazaki tribute within Sonic 3, due to the Castle in the Sky connections. which, you may know does feature a floating island, with an enigmatic and energetic crystal within it too!! and, this is always surprising and wonderful to see.

    [​IMG]
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Useful Useful x 1
    • List
  9. expansivelovestories

    expansivelovestories

    reality is profoundly synergistic Member
    45
    23
    8
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Ok!! i figured it would make sense to add these still pictures too as long as i do clarify again that it's probably even more likely that it's a coincidence, which in some ways makes it even more amazing!! However there must also be a non zero chance it's an incredible, unknown homage to unofficially recognize alongside all to the others from throughout the very first Sonic games.

    But, this is the scene i mentioned in the above post which starts at 9' 14" in the episode video: the animation in motion of the character Jimsy here laughing is uniquely similar to the beloved Knuckles animation from S3K; that is, it's based around alternating between the equivalent of two frames.
     
  10. Prototype

    Prototype

    Member
    302
    73
    28
    Interesting, since the Game.Com version of Sonic Jam (a broken mishmash of Sonic 3 elements) showed that the original Knuckles laughing sprites were different and weren't the "teethy grin" face of the final Sonic 3.

    It resembled the alternative laughing sprites from the Game Gear game. (Was it Triple Trouble?)

    So did the Miyazaki animation influences come in later? There certainly seemed to be a lot of influence drawn from various anime, such as Toei's Dragon Ball work.
     
  11. BlackHole

    BlackHole

    You're going to need MORE than help. Member
    5,665
    785
    93
    England
    Complaining
    Blastfrog may be remembering the concept art from Sonic Origins, which has the original Master Emerald design sat over a rough concept of the island:

    [​IMG]

    The island in that concept does have two peaks like the island on the right of the title screen, as Mastered Realm posted. No third peak, so no idea about that one on the left.


    No Flying Battery though, the most I can suggest of that is other images in the same gallery showing the original level order, including the intended Ice Cap > Flying Battery > Sandopolis layout.
     
    • Informative Informative x 3
    • Like Like x 1
    • List
  12. XCubed

    XCubed

    Will Someday Own a Rent-A-Center Oldbie
    I’m completely thrown by that master emerald concept. It would have been more difficult to stand on :V
     
  13. Jaxer

    Jaxer

    Member
    283
    253
    63
    Considering how the Emerald in the final game is flat on the top, the developers probably thought of the same thing.

    And I don't know if this is just me, but all the ruins/buildings in this sketch very much remind me of Mos Eisley from Star Wars.

    star-wars-mos-eisley (1).jpg

    And considering how important the Death Egg is in the game's story, I don't think that it's a coincidence either.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • List
  14. dsmania

    dsmania

    Old lurker Member
    16
    29
    13
    I'm going to bring something I noticed some years ago, that all of a sudden makes a lot of sense:
    upload_2024-5-12_6-24-12.png
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • List
  15. BlackHole

    BlackHole

    You're going to need MORE than help. Member
    5,665
    785
    93
    England
    Complaining
    But much easier to smack Knuckles with it :eng99:

    [​IMG]

    @Blastfrog is the concept art in the post above and the following showing Flying Battery the concept art you're remembering?

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  16. YuTwo

    YuTwo

    Member
    76
    139
    33
    I've read about this before too. I saw a blog post where they showed comparison shots:
    https://web.archive.org/web/2023112...014/09/the-sonic-3-and-laputa-connection.html

    The writer of that post does note that they weren’t the one who made this observation first. Although they do provide very useful information themselves. They link to two separate interviews with Yuji Naka where he says he likes Hayao Miyazaki’s films.

    The first one was from a GameFan magazine (June 1999)
    Gamefan: Who and what are your major influences outside of the gaming industry?

    Yuji Naka: Entertainment in general inspires me. Theme parks, music, films, amusement centers, etc. My favorite musical group is YMO (Yellow Magic Orchestra a Japanese techno group). I also like Hayao Miyazaki (Japan's very famous animation movie director) and Robert Zemeckis.
    https://info.sonicretro.org/Yuji Naka interview by Gamefan (June 1999)

    Here is a scan of the magazine
    https://archive.org/details/GamefanVolume7Issue06June1999/page/n31/mode/2up

    https://ia903109.us.archive.org/vie...fan Volume 7 Issue 06 June 1999/0033_0032.jpg

    The second one was from a Nintendo Power magazine (May 2009)
    I want to note that in this one he also mentions George Lucas, who made the Star Wars movies, as one of his other favorite movie directors
    Nintendo Power: Whose works in other forms of media, such as film or literature, do you most admire or enjoy?

    Yuji Naka: I love movies and stage shows. I particularly like Cirque du Soleil. As for my favorite directors, I would probably say Steven Spielberg. George Lucas, and Hayao Miyazaki.
    https://info.sonicretro.org/Yuji Naka interview by Nintendo Power (May 4, 2009)

    https://info.sonicretro.org/Power_Profiles_-_Sonic_Unleashed_(Nintendo_Power,_May_2009)

    https://web.archive.org/web/2023043.../images/b/b6/NintendoPower_May2009_Page82.jpg
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  17. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

    Member
    2,378
    980
    93
    Yes, it's generally accepted that Hayao Miyazaki's movies had a great influence in Sonic. Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind even had ancient prophetic tapestries with a certain peculiar art style.

    n2.jpg n1.jpg n3.jpg n4.jpg

    hpz.png dragon.jpg chaos.png
     
  18. Pengi

    Pengi

    Member
    1,899
    541
    93
    The Hidden Palace Zone tapestry is a direct homage. The Perfect Chaos image is a stone mosaic and completely different stylistically, so I don't think there's any influence there.
     
  19. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

    Member
    2,378
    980
    93
    Not directly. But the scrapped dragon tapestry had a large firebreathing monster like in Nausicaa. The Perfect Chaos mosaic has elements from the scrapped tapestry (a large draconic monster), and from the 4th Nausicaa pic (a destroyed city in ruins in the bottom of the image).
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  20. Jaxer

    Jaxer

    Member
    283
    253
    63
    And correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Sky Sanctuary Zone music track's actual name "Castle in the Sky" too?