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So just what the hell was the deal with Sonic 2 8-bit

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Cooljerk, Jun 12, 2014.

  1. Ch1pper

    Ch1pper

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    Yeah, there's no such issues on the 3DS. Ghosting is turned off by default but still available as an option (for whatever reason), the 1/2/Start buttons can be mapped to any 3DS button (other than Start/Select), and there's a few options for screen size adjustment. A step or two above NES/Game Boy offerings in the eShop, to be sure. :)
     
  2. Mastered Realm

    Mastered Realm

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    You can change the frame color too, the emulator is pretty good! It was done by M2 IIRC.
     
  3. ICEknight

    ICEknight

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    Doesn't the emulator show a wrong aspect ratio when using the frame, though?
     
  4. nineko

    nineko

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    If you break them all, you obtain a cheat code which can be entered like the other ones in the Sound Test screen, as sfx numbers: 08-31-71 (see this old Youtube video I did) which means 00 08 03 01 07 01. While it is recognized as a valid cheat code (the screen shakes when you enter it), I don't know what it does. Not even smspower mentions that.

    edit: Google is always a good friend. It looks like that new messages appear when you break the monitors after you entered the code.
     
  5. The water/speed shoes monitor is an interesting thing, and I can explain why they removed the monitor in the Game Gear version. As you mentioned, in the Master System version, you can run and jump freely at regular speed where you start off. However, the water never actually rises in this version and always stays at the same vertical level. What makes this evident is that Sonic runs faster whenever you're way up high, and you also can't drown no matter how long you stay there.

    It works something like this:

    [​IMG]

    Notice how the Speed Shoes monitor is above the water. Besides adding a shiny trail of sparks behind Sonic and changing the music, it actually doesn't do anything! It's supposed to cover up the fact that, for whatever reason, the top of the level is above the water. Most people would get the monitor when the chance presented itself, so for the short segment after you find it, you'll think that you're running faster because of it. It's actually because you've jumped out of the water. A good way to see this is by getting the monitor and falling back down. You'll be as sluggish as usual.

    So why isn't the Speed Shoes monitor in the Game Gear version? That's right: because the entire level does get submerged in water there (and very visibly so). Picking up the monitor there wouldn't have changed your speed because they never bothered programming it properly. It was easier to just get rid of it altogether. I'm not suggesting the Speed Shoes monitor was intentionally created to cover up the whole water thing, but I do think it was incomplete near release, so they decided to give it some use where it made the most sense.

    I don't know the exact reason why they didn't do something similar for the beginning and the ending of the level, but I guess it was just more jarring to see Sonic picking up and losing speed randomly somewhere in the middle. The game was clearly rushed, so this kind of stuff isn't too surprising.

    I'm more surprised they didn't just make the Master System level underwater from top to bottom, but perhaps they planned to make the water visible like in the Game Gear version at first. I don't think it was intended to rise, though: it was this that made the shortcut near the end of the level impossible to take in the Game Gear version, due to Sonic's hindered movement (I'm talking specifically about the intangible wall before the tube that leads to the Emerald, which allows you to bypass the long vertical ascent with all the lobsters and spears).

    Speaking of Aqua Lake oddities, the boss hilariously hits himself the first time he tries to attack you, provided you just stand there and watch. This was fixed for the Game Gear version.
     
  6. Mastered Realm

    Mastered Realm

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    It uses the 1:1 dot-by-dot output, which is the best-looking option considering scaling a 160x144 image in a 400x240 screen looks pretty bad since it's less than 2x.
    Also Sonic games don't have a very defined aspect ratio considering when you use the aspect ratio the MS uses all the squares in green hill get wider due to the tiles being 8x8 blocks etc.

    For comparison.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  7. ICEknight

    ICEknight

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    Gotta disagree here... Take a look at these circle shapes:
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    The graphics were just made for that aspect ratio, it's like arguing that old 4:3 games look okay in stretched widescreen mode.
    Well, these screenshots have the same size they would on the 3DS and they don't look too bad.
     
  8. GT Koopa

    GT Koopa

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    Flicky Turncoat DX, T.L.W.S. Vs M.G.W.

    But everything you said there is wrong.

    [​IMG]

    You can use the shortcut because I just tested it myself on a game gear rom. Also, the seal boss attacks himself the first time is not only in the game gear version, but also is a hint to first time players on how to defeat him. In short it was planned, not a "glitch."
     
  9. Hah! I don't think I ever did that in the Game Gear version before. I guess I just jumped too clumsily.

    My point still stands, though: the Master System version definitely has a water surface programmed. I think it would be interesting to see what happens if the water from the Game Gear version was hacked into the Master System. My theory is that a technical difficulty of some sort is what prevented them from doing things properly, but that's just me guessing. Why else would it have turned out that way, though? I've always thought this was an interesting thing and I'd love to hear more opinions on it!

    As for the seal, I'll take your word for it. I admit I haven't played the Game Gear version more than perhaps a couple of times, so I guess I just didn't stand there long enough to test it and assumed (for some reason) that they changed that.

    I also only recently found out you can get 300 000 points for finishing a level really fast. 18 seconds got me that time bonus.
     
  10. ICEknight

    ICEknight

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    The water in Sonic Chaos shows a lot of garbage on screen near the surface, at least on NTSC systems (can't remember how PAL systems displayed it, right now), so I'm thinking they might have been scared of being criticized for having such a technical flaw in their top 1992 SMS game or something.

    Please note that I'm talking about real hardware, I don't think that stuff shows up in any current emulator.
     
  11. nineko

    nineko

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    Yeah, and 300000 seems to be the maximum, as a weird value as it is, since not even the TAS got more points, not even with 13 seconds. It seems to be 300000 up to 20 seconds, though.
     
  12. AeonicB

    AeonicB

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    I now just want to sit down and play the 8-Bit games. I've dabbled with them a few times before, but never really gave them an honest playthrough.

    They seemed kind of fun when I did dabble, though.

    I do find the mind trickery for the speed shoes hilarious, though. I mean, they put a lot of thought into tricking with a lot of people, then?
     
  13. Mastered Realm

    Mastered Realm

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    No it's not. As I said, the presence of the 8x8 blocks makes some of the art perfect for 1:1 mode as seen here:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    You have to remember the 3DS has bigger pixels than your monitor so the bilinear filter/nonsquare pixels are more aparent;

    It's a matter of preference, not right or wrong. If you want squares to look right, circles will look stretched, If you want circles to look right, squares will look stretched. The 'correct aspect ratio' should be the one on real hardware of course, but were talking about an emulator running on another system with different resolution from a TV an no blurring so the dither doesn't appear as a midtone anyway. It won't be the real experience unless you have an SMS lying around :P
     
  14. ICEknight

    ICEknight

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    Only the art that they didn't bother with due to sheer lazyness but, as I've already shown, they actively tried to make the graphics look right for the SMS aspect ratio, which is the way these games were supposed to be displayed at all times.

    Even the most repeated sprite in the Sonic games follows these rules:
    [​IMG]

    This is why I'd rather have the correct aspect ratio in their "original size" mode, just like Nintendo did with their NES games.