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S2B and S2F - the Rings and Counters

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Icy Guy, Nov 27, 2003.

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  1. Nov 27, 2003 #1
    Icy Guy

    Icy Guy

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    The other day, I was reading the Tech Hoax topic, and something strange caught my eye. No, it wasn't one of the hoaxes (great job on those, btw), but something that was contained in one of the hoaxes, prompting me to whip up a comparison...

    [​IMG] < Final

    [​IMG] < Beta

    (Tails is always too slow for me, so that's why he's not in the bottom pic.)

    It appears that, in our beta, the rings actually overlap the score/time/rings display, whereas, in the final, they don't. The strange thing is, this happens to contradict this screen, on the site...

    [​IMG]

    Lo, and behold, the rings do not overlap the counters.

    Weird, huh? I can't think of an explanation as to why shots 2 and 3 are different, but I'm sure there is one. I don't believe that Tails has any bearing on this, because, upon testing this in ARZ with Tails onscreen, the rings still were displayed over the counters. I also tested this in Genecyst (I was using Gens when I took these shots, which, btw, are compressed as GIFs to spare you the agony of loading 200 KB bitmaps), just to see if it was just a glitch in Gens. It wasn't.

    Your thoughts?
     
  2. Nov 27, 2003 #2
    LOst

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    Interesting.

    Hmmn... This forum starts to be like A51 was back in 2002. I like it when people start their own research. Continue that!

    EDIT: whaa! This is your first post. Welcome to the S2B messageboard. Enjoy your stay! :)
     
  3. Nov 27, 2003 #3
    Chronix

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    ditto. welcome aboard!
     
  4. Nov 27, 2003 #4
    Mecha Mazgoth

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    Hello! Welcome to Hell- *shot* -I mean....Welcome to S2B!! :)
    [​IMG]
     
  5. Nov 27, 2003 #5
    Bleeding Cut

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    Sensing newbie nearby.......
     

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  6. Nov 27, 2003 #6
    Ben2k9

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    that IS intersting, because if S2B was built over the Sonic 1 engine then why do they overlap the status counters? plus, the last shot (that was from the site) doesn't add up either, perhaps Simon knows that one?
     
  7. Nov 27, 2003 #7
    Chronix

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    I don't know Jack! what do you mean built over the S1 engine?
     
  8. Nov 27, 2003 #8
    Ben2k9

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    yeah, they used the same engine as S1 for S2 (obviously modified).
     
  9. Nov 28, 2003 #9
    LOst

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    They used the same engine for Sonic 1, Sonic 1 JP, Sonic 2 Beta, Sonic 2, Sonic 2 Rev.02, and Knuckles in Sonic 2.
     
  10. Nov 28, 2003 #10
    TechSonic

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    Newbie detected!

    Launching all missiles!



    XD!!!!!!




    That is an interesting image. I looked at it myself and saw the same in my beta. I wonder why it was like that.
     
  11. Nov 28, 2003 #11
    Icy Guy

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    Hm...where to start? ;) I know: I'll get the "thank you"s out of the way:

    I'll just kind of gloss over the "newbie" comments and consider those to be welcomes. Thanks everyone. :) (I've actually been visiting the site for well over the year, and I've been lurking around the forums for a few months, but I thought it might be time to actually create an account...imagine that.)

    I've come up with a possible explanation as to why the rings are doing this in S2, but not in S1: the backgrounds. It seems to me that S2's backgrounds have more layers (can anyone confirm or squash this?), and if the S2 backgrounds have more layers than S1's, then it stands to reason that, somewhere in the time during S2's development/the modification of S1's engine, they would have to program the game to recognize/handle the presence of additional layers. While creating the code, there may have been a glitch that would cause the rings to be stacked the highest in the layer order, resulting in their overlapping of the counters.

    I'm curious to see if enemies will overlap the counters, too, but I'm going to have to try that tomorrow.
     
  12. Nov 28, 2003 #12
    TechSonic

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    Interesting...

    Did you have to quote that much?
     
  13. Nov 28, 2003 #13
    Mecha Mazgoth

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    *waps TechSonic for acting stupidly*

    I don't think Simon has that... cheak his site.
    Great discovery either way! :)
     
  14. Nov 28, 2003 #14
    LOst

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    Sonic 2 uses more bg layers than Sonic 1, but I don't think it uses more layers that Sonic 1 JP.

    We know that the rings were reprogrammed somewhere during the Sonic 2 development. Craig says in his interview that an early beta had no rings, so the game was no fun to play.

    The rings needed to be reprogrammed because of Tails, I think, but I don't know. We also know about the perfect bonus that you can get if you took all the rings in the level.

    And the biggest reason for reprogramming the rings is that the rings now are seperated from the object list. In Sonic 1 the rings and objects shared the same list, not they don't. This can have to do with the perfect bonus too.
     
  15. Nov 28, 2003 #15
    TechSonic

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    I find big quotes annoying. They should only be quoted if a message follows, most of those didn't have a following message. By the way, I like fish, mmmm.
     
  16. Nov 28, 2003 #16
    The Wanderer

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    Hey, what's up Icy. You've got into the world of Sonic hacking as well?

    Anyways, interesting discovery. Lost, one question: Is it a case that the rings are still separated from the normal objects list in S2 final? I'm going to assume yes, but I would like to make sure this is still the case.
     
  17. Nov 28, 2003 #17
    LOst

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    Yes, the rings are seperated, having their own list in Sonic 2 Beta and above versions
     
  18. Nov 29, 2003 #18
    Icy Guy

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    Yep. About time, too. :)

    Well, I've gone and checked to see if enemies would overlap the counters. They don't (see attached).

    Hm...then that might actually be the reason as to why the rings overlap the counters (given the [likely] possibility that S1 JP and S2 use the same number of layers), and the enemies don't.
     

    Attached Files:

  19. Nov 30, 2003 #19
    BombwithNapalm

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    heh...I've known about that for a while now the ring counters look pretty much the same to me..
     
  20. Nov 30, 2003 #20
    SupperTails66

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    Ok... I did a little research and found that enemies appear behind the rings in both Sonic 2 Beta and Sonic 2 Final. In Sonic 2 Final, this seems ok, but in Sonic 2 Beta, when I think about it... if the rings are front of the counter, and the enemies appear behind the counter, but also appear behind the rings... my head hurts. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
     
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