don't click here

Nameless Hack

Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by The Shad, Jan 25, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. The Shad

    The Shad

    ↑ & ↓ & ↻ Oldbie
    3,073
    8
    18
    I've just got into rom hacking (I tried once before and totally failed) and am hoping to learn more and more from what's out there. As of now, I'm only working on level layouts, getting a feel for object placement and what not. I'll begin working on pallette and/or sprites eventually as I begin to understand everything a bit more.

    http://ewazone.com/pyb/Sonic_2_Remix_Edit.bin

    Currently, only act 1 of Emerald Hill is playable, though you can play the rest of the unaltered game through level select (after act 1, it goes back to the sega title screen). The only other big change is I'm fucking with Hill Top Zone in the process, as I'd rather combine aspects of both zones for one good zone and then retile Hill Top as I get more experienced. I also realise I need to learn stuff like split disassembly and what not and not just stay in SonED.. But you don't learn everything at once.

    So, constructive criticism only, please. Remember, I've just started, so things are a bit wonky.
     
  2. Tweaker

    Tweaker

    Banned
    12,387
    2
    0
    =P

    Otherwise, not too bad. A few of the sections of flat ground felt a bit unrewarding, though. I also wouldn't recommend putting a corkscrew right at the start of the level—I don't like having to go back and spindash just to get through it.

    Only other thing I'd suggest would be trying a new palette out for size. I always thought level edits with the original palettes looked extremely awkward, as is the case here as well.
     
  3. The Shad

    The Shad

    ↑ & ↓ & ↻ Oldbie
    3,073
    8
    18
    I knew I had seen that title somewhere >>;

    Yeah, I'll have to do a pallette eventually. I can't think of what, though.. The idea is a garden and gardens are green. Its why I'm not so worried about them at this moment.

    I wasn't too sure about the corkscrew myself, but left it in there. (I normally just jump and hit the enemy and keep going and I live). I also wish EHZ had some sort of ground enemy like that snail.
     
  4. Spanner

    Spanner

    The Tool Member
    I was impressed with your EHZ layout, keep it up.
    As for split disasm, you should try it, with many seperate files it is easier than before, also feel free to look in this topic for some Sonic 2 ASM edits.
     
  5. Thorn

    Thorn

    Tech Member
    335
    19
    18
    Home
    Sonic 2 Retro Remix
    I'm listing thoughts here as I play through...

    - What in blazes is a "spriral"? [sic] X)
    - I agree with Tweaker, the corkscrew's a bit of a surprise (and the waterfall under it doesn't use the correct top tiles, but that's minor). I think you could remedy that easily just by having the player start close enough to throw a red spring.
    - Tile lineups are out of wack starting where the shield is and continuing on the top route. This usually gets fixed with experience, so eh. *shrugs*
    - Whipping around the 270° loop only to stop dead against the sides of the spikes, although I didn't get hit, was kind of a letdown. :P I was expecting a nice, fast section.
    - Putting the bridge support posts on the upper corners of some loops to connect them to the ceiling is a minor detail, but something that I thought looked nice and showed a bit of effort.
    - Unreleated, I'm taking a strange liking to your avatar. *right-clicks, saves*
    - It took me a while to finish this level in under 30 seconds, but it wasn't so much the level difficulty as random crashing into the sides of things. The level's lower (and quicker) route was sort of a mesh of flat sections at various heights, leading into a lot of colliding and stopping dead. This is probably the hardest thing to get down about making a new level, particualrly in Sonic 2. Slowing down a quick-moving character is easiest done via a run straight up a vertical wall, as the speed stays up and it makes the player feel like he's got somewhere for it. You could always use diagonal springs or an upward slope to wing the player to the right place too. :P Sometimes you can even kill this feeling just by adding more routes to it -- lots of people do two-route levels, but it takes some guts to have a lot running concurrently with their own shapes of the terrain.
    - I also agree with Tweaker on palette... new art is a pain, but palettes are pretty simple, especially in SonED's Tile Editor where you get instant feedback. There's pretty much three generic looks for Emerald Hill - night, light blue, and sunset - and even those overused looks are fresher than the original palette.

    Basically your level has everything that most first-levels do, but it's better on account of not being masochistic or buggy. X) Keep tweaking it as you're hacking other levels too - I redid the ending of my first Emerald Hill 1 at least five times before I was satisfied with it. Persistance pays off; practice, practice, practice; etc. I'll be sure to check out your next release.

    EDIT: SOTI brought up a good point - it was pretty obvious you used SonED v0.5, and that's where I started too. But I've come to realize that even for simple hacks of Sonic 2 it's ridiculously easy to use SonED2 and a split ROM, because unlike Sonic 1 there's almost no setup required once you split the ROM. Decide where you want to go with it early, so you don't have to port too many level designs if you decide to switch later. :P
     
  6. The Shad

    The Shad

    ↑ & ↓ & ↻ Oldbie
    3,073
    8
    18
    A typo I've not caught =P

    This really bugs the hell out of me, actually. I'm working on it.

    Yeah, I noticed it didn't go as planned. I wanted to try and keep from getting "SAdv2 Syndrome" and not having speed speed speed, but at the same time, I've still managed to have a bit of the syndrome by having random shit in your way.

    I am so glad you noticed that. I have this annoying detail habit and I wanted the bottom route's ceilings to actually have.. Well, detail. When doing the loops below, I noticed that empty space and it really annoyed me, so I filled it with those. I think it came off nicely.

    It is awesome, isn't it?

    Point noted and remembered.

    As it is, I'll probably completely redo the level, as this was done in.. 2 days time. I'll go ahead and do it in SonED2 while keeping the old layout as reference, as a few things I do wanna keep.

    SOTI: I'll give it a look over. Thanks for the link.
     
  7. SMTP

    SMTP

    Tech Member
    No, but this hack is called Remix EDIT! Its different!
     
  8. The Shad

    The Shad

    ↑ & ↓ & ↻ Oldbie
    3,073
    8
    18
    I'd like to add the S2 Beta motobug into this, however I don't know how. I guess its kinda important because when doing the level design (I'm starting from scratch), I like to place the enemies as I go so I kinda know what to do next. I'd like a ground enemy, so if anyone could help, I'd appreciate it (trying to read guides to find out how to do it makes me brain hurt).
     
  9. JcFerggy

    JcFerggy

    Do you want to taco 'bout it? Member
    1,364
    58
    28
    Nova Scotia, Canada
    GoldenEye: Source, Other Stuff
    The link isn't working for me, could you re-upload it?
     
  10. The Shad

    The Shad

    ↑ & ↓ & ↻ Oldbie
    3,073
    8
    18
  11. SMTP

    SMTP

    Tech Member
    If you are doing this in a split disassembly its pretty much a copy/paste job. Change a few labels and it'd work.

    If this is in SonED1 & Hex, the guide at Hacking-cult is the best there is.
     
  12. Upthorn

    Upthorn

    TAS Tech Member
    239
    0
    0
    Well, you've misidentified SAdv2 Syndrome. The primary symptom of "SAdv2 Syndrome" is that difficulty = no floors
     
  13. The Shad

    The Shad

    ↑ & ↓ & ↻ Oldbie
    3,073
    8
    18
    that's "Bottomless Pit Syndrome", which SA2 and beyond are notorious for =P SAdv2 began this mystified sense of Sonic being nothing but breakneck speed, plus bottomless pits and badly placed obstacles. They tried to counter it in the Rush Series with the Rush Attack, which is basically holding down a button to go faster and be near-invincible. I don't remember much of that in Rivals 1, though my experience with it was limited.
     
  14. Thorn

    Thorn

    Tech Member
    335
    19
    18
    Home
    Sonic 2 Retro Remix
    ^What happened in Rivals 1 was a return to having two or three routes running simultaneously over top of one another. It sounds great in theory, but the problem was that each of said routes was lucky to be three seconds long before there was a break in the floor and you'd fall or spring up to another route. Rivals 2 is a bit better in this regard since the different routes can last ten seconds or so before they interchange, which is about how long most lasted on the Genesis with the exception of more complex levels such as those in S3&K.

    Part of the beauty of hacking Sonic 2 instead of Sonic 1 is that the path system lets you run paths concurrently without having a gap in the path every few seconds to jump over or fall through. It also stops you from making the paths as needlessly flat as they are in Rivals 1... seriously, the things are more like series of connected platforms.
     
  15. The Shad

    The Shad

    ↑ & ↓ & ↻ Oldbie
    3,073
    8
    18
    So I've switched to SonED2 awhile back, and it really pisses me off. Importing anything fucks up, as well as editing anything within in the program because there are some tiles that seemingly do nothing, while others edit things you didn't even wanna touch. I mean, its got some really useful tools and such, but at the same time I've managed to go absolutely nowhere, if not backwards, since I posted the link to the rom.
     
  16. Tweaker

    Tweaker

    Banned
    12,387
    2
    0
    Sounds like you just don't know how to use it. :P

    You're probably better off not outright importing art, and rather redrawing it from scratch. If you're trying to port an existing level, however, you can just rip the data you need and replace the level files with it.
     
  17. Thorn

    Thorn

    Tech Member
    335
    19
    18
    Home
    Sonic 2 Retro Remix
    Define "anything". Importing art is beyond me, but if you're trying to pull your old level over that should be relatively simple. It's one of the few times I found ESEII useful, as opening your old level in it will show you the locations of all of the level/object/ring data so you can dive into a hex editor and extract it.

    I'm guessing you're editing 16x16s or 8x8s that are shared across 128x128s (read: you're editing small portions that are used by many large portions). That same thing would happen in ESEII or SonED1, it's not just a SonED2 problem. I'd work on one thing at a time: if you already have half of a level design, finish it so you know which 128x128s you didn't use. Then you can strip those away to make room for new art.
     
  18. SMTP

    SMTP

    Tech Member
    He is probabley having the same problem I always have.

    You Export the 128x128 tiles, draw overtop them and reimport them. It destroys everything when I do it this way.

    I think the problem is, your supposed to export/import the 8x8 tiles and do it that way..?
     
  19. The Shad

    The Shad

    ↑ & ↓ & ↻ Oldbie
    3,073
    8
    18
    [​IMG]

    I have awesome trees. I realise the shading is bad and it needs work and blah blah blah, I'm just glad I something small that's gonna help take away from the "EHZ" feel. I don't want blue or night or sunset. Its a "garden". Garden's are green. And so are my trees. I love my trees.
     
  20. Sonic Boom

    Sonic Boom

    Member
    It's got that 8-bit feel to it, but it's nice for a start. Just add some details to it and it'll look really good.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.