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General Questions and Information Thread

Discussion in 'General Sega Discussion' started by Andlabs, Aug 25, 2011.

  1. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    I don't really have a platform outside of Sonic/Sega Retro, and I'm not going to go searching the net to find one, but I came across something that might be important:

    Billy Mitchell is currently having a legal fight with Twin Galaxies over cheating at Donkey Kong. Karl Jobst is getting a lot out of it. If by "a lot" you mean "sued".

    As evidence against Billy, there's this idea that he was crowned "Player of the Century" at some point, but proof is thin on the ground and records may have been falsified. Did he really get this award, or was it all fabricated?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    https://archive.org/details/nours-magazine-volume-26-winter-1999-600dpi/page/n5/mode/2up

    ...yes. And this is from Namco's official Japanese magazine from Winter 1999.


    This doesn't solve Donkey Kong joystick-gate, aka the actual issue (other than suing Youtubers and being generally... difficult), but according to someone somewhere, Billy Mitchell was indeed "Player of the Century".

    Pass this information to whoever needs it. Unless they have it already.

    p.s. I wasn't looking for this.
     
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  2. Seems pretty cool! I've added the Daytona USA location test info I remembered Makoto Osaki talking about in Let's Go Away: The Video Game Daytona USA Anniversary Box. The game could probably do with having a separate Development page.
    I also still had the source around for one of Sega Network Taisen Mahjong MJ4's location tests and checked further news pages to get later ones (didn't find an earlier one on MJ3 Evolution's news).
    I assume we'll be entering every location's name into the table, right? So that they're directed towards, and maybe we could even give those locations an automated list of games they've hosted tests for. I went with stuff like "30 different locations" at the start though, that's also an option.

    Also, I feel like either Location testing shouldn't be included as a sub-header, or the Location tests text that shows up above the table shouldn't be included, since it's redundant. No idea which would be better to keep, being to go there from the table of contents is nice for the usual maneauvering, but I just like the look of the Location tests text myself.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2023
  3. Ted909

    Ted909

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    Never realised Osaki went into such specific detail about it in that - the December timeframe he gives is interesting, as up until now I was only aware of the game being tested sometime in August via Sega Arcade History and one of @NiktheGreek's 'making of' pieces for Retro Gamer. Things are even tenuously related to Dennou Senki Net Merc, as one of the Virtuality developers has recalled that their game outdid Daytona on its own test at Ikebukuro GiGO.

    And whilst this is relevant too, someone recently posted photos of Sega Racing Classic's unannounced test at Hi Tech Land Sega Shibuya. Not sure on the rough period with this one, but it never actually ended up going to market over there, so they were a surprise to see.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2023
  4. RyogaMasaki

    RyogaMasaki

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  5. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    I think we only learnt that the Sega Vision was sold in Japan earlier this year, so that's a fascinating find.

    It's such a weird device. There was a huge amount of interest about it in the mid-1970s, but try finding a photo of one. Not a single unit has survived, despite being a supposedly top of the range, super expensive luxary item, and television is something the internet usually cares about.


    This also proves something I wasn't super sure about - some Rock-Ola jukeboxes really don't have names, just numbers.
     
  6. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    Today on "things I don't know how to handle yet"

    [​IMG]
    At JAEPO 2020, maybe one of the last in-person industry expos before the event, Sega were plugging an arcade version of "Guilty Gear: Strive". See also: all the banners.

    It's there on their website. They were even giving out T-shirts, and yet... this game wasn't published by Sega. I'm not sure if the event killed off Sega's publishing plans, but the final game was handled entirely by Arc System Works.


    Except it does rely on Sega's technology - the ever confusing ALL .Net P-ras MULTI. Previous Guilty Gears use earlier versions of this too... but they didn't appear at Sega booths at trade shows in big letters. I'm not super sure how much we need to care.
     
  7. Ted909

    Ted909

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    I've always assumed that Strive was just made the big 'marquee' game to promote APM3 itself and its game lineup at that event. There were no big first party titles to use, with Virtua Fighter eSports still months away from its reveal. And the other third party stuff there wasn't really anything to write home about either, despite a few curios ('Senjin', which later became an Aleste sequel, and a now-cancelled Fantasy Zone port also by M2 for an APM3 "Sega Classics" series that never actually ended up happening, etc).

    So even with that big display I'm not sure any publishing plans were ever on the table in the first place. But one thing I do know was definitely affected by 'the rona' was its location test and release. Lockdowns were still happening in parts of Japan during mid 2021, and as such all of the initial location test dates in April had to be cancelled and postponed - except for Sega Akita's and Sega Fukuoka Tenjin's, as those prefectures were seemingly kept open. That then ended up meaning the arcade version couldn't release with all the others on June 11. The other tests instead happened in July, and it finally released on APM3 a couple weeks afterward.

    Another confusing thing - despite being held in-person again for the first time in three years last February, JAEPO doesn't exist anymore... sort of. Its organisers (JAIA) have seemingly reformatted it, going from two event days to one, moving from Makuhari Messe to Tokyo Big Sight, and imaginatively rebranding the whole thing to "Amusement Expo". The first of these is already going to be held in just under a few months time, and Sega will indeed be there.
     
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  8. Pirate Dragon

    Pirate Dragon

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    Maybe we just need a "Sega Hosted" subsection for games featured at Sega stands at events, but not distributed/published by them. There may also be some reverse examples, where Sega didn't have a stand themselves, but had games hosted on other publisher's stands.

    Edit: Also, something else I noticed, Sega Europe (once they started cutting costs) would often skip UK events (ECTS etc) but hold events at their UK HQ at the same time instead, bussing people in to attend it. So technically they weren't at these events, but kind of were as they showed off all their upcoming stuff to all of the journos attending these events anyway, just not there. Not sure how we should handle that.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2023
  9. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    If you search for "Sega" on the (US) ebay it won't take you long to find some sort of anime toy or figure, or maybe something Disney related. These are all prizes from Japanese UFO Catchers, because this noise is big business, and for some reason they end up being resold mainly in America. I started making lists for the older stuff, but I have my fingers in enough pies - I just don't care enough about anime schoolgirls.

    Is it possible to quantify how much stuff we're missing? Kind-of - they do have a website, and there's always a lot of "stuff", but how often does the lineup get refreshed? Apparently, too often:

    [​IMG]
    https://prizefair.jp/

    Every few months the six biggest "prize" companies in Japan come together for "Prize Fair", a sort-of mini expo for prizes. There's been 73 since about 2005/2006, and Sega's been at all of them. Better yet, these are often lined with prototype models, with some presumably never making it to full production.

    On the plus side, many of these Prize Fairs occur within other expos, such as JAEPO, so we might not need 73 separate pages:

    [​IMG]
    Since it was just uploaded - the JAEPO 2023 floor plan - there's a big Sega booth, but also a secondary one as part of Prize Fair. Also six sets of toilets, to help stop you wetting yourself with excitement.

    This is the biggest omission on Sega Retro now, though it's reasonable to say the vast majority of visitors won't care. But it's worth noting - every quarter that goes by, Sega release a dozen or two new prizes. Then again, it's the same for Taito and Bandai.
     
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  10. Ted909

    Ted909

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    To make matters worse, Sega Amusements International was (still is?) also at the prize redemption business for a while. Not sure if they had their own events though.
    [​IMG]
    No anime girls to be found at Sega Prize International, however - just more poor quality landfill plush toys of Del Boy. But with Sega-branded tags.


    Let's use this as an excuse to go on about a few semi-relevant things here

    JAIA (Japan Amusement Industry Association) was formed in April 2018 by JAMMA (Japan Amusement Machine and Marketing Association) and AOU (Amusement Operators Union), the two main trade bodies for the amusement machine and facility industries over there that Sega were/are naturally members of. They'd already effectively merged their eponymous trade shows in 2013 together to create the one single JAEPO event, though those technically succeeded the AOU shows.
    [​IMG]
    English internet unsurprisingly isn't up to speed with much of this stuff, particularly when it comes to the more recent developments. In fact, as far as Wikipedia is currently concerned, JAMMA and AOU still exist independently of each other.


    One fact that is at least mentioned in a few places, including Retro, is that Hayao Nakayama was one of the main forces behind the creation of JAMMA in 1980, being made among the first of its vice presidents. He actually went on to be president of it for a bit longer during the 1990s, overseeing the association through some turbulent years... and moments such as when his company got in hot water over Sega Ski Super G's similarities to Namco's earlier Alpine Racer ski simulation games (whoops).
    [​IMG]
    This was a big enough deal at the time for JAMMA to make a "Creative and Conscientious Charter" as an ethics statement for its members - but it's barely documented nowadays outside of one or two later issues of Game Machine. It did, however, crop up as a talking point a few years later when Konami started lawsuiting companies left right and centre over their similar rhythm games. Their argument was that JAMMA should enforce it more strictly, though they weren't very successful in changing much:
    [​IMG]
    Sega weren't involved in any of the resultant legal action, but Konami did prolong an apparent old feud between their amusement arms by forbidding most of their locations from operating stuff like Beatmania for a while. People are saying that then meant Sega generally just got the imitations by companies like Jaleco that were being sued. I can't find where I read this part now, but one Sega location allegedly even failed to keep a used DDR machine they bought on the quiet, as Konami yakuza were tipped off and ordered it to be removed within days.


    How did I get here? Japanese amusement industry trade bodies formed to try and keep order in their businesses. I don't know if they've managed that particularly well all of the time now.
     
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  11. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    Because everything is connected.

    Hey you know what that advert has? Sega Sports. You know what that EGM tour didn't have? Sega Sports.

    There's probably a good reason for that - their Sega Sports stuff wasn't ready. The 1993 lineup (and maybe even the Sega Sports branding) was almost certainly unveiled at Summer CES 1993, but given all the magazines of the era were printing the same screenshots, I'm guessing nothing was playable. And I'm sure someone will care about their individual stories.

    The one that caught my eye, and may require a page split on Sega Retro, is World Series Baseball. WSB was announced for three platforms but only made it to two - the Mega-CD version was scrapped within a couple of months. Were there ever any screenshots of that version?

    [​IMG]
    https://segaretro.org/index.php?title=File:SegaVisions_US_14.pdf&page=75
    Yes!

    It has a vertical split-screen view and corrupt graphics. Talk of "scaling and zoom" and "filmed parks" would also set it above the Mega Drive version (which is on the next page, and looks slightly different).

    Better yet, we have footage:

    8:40

    No guarantees the Mega Drive and Mega-CD versions aren't the same thing at this stage, but hey, horrible 3D render!

    (And as a bonus, the absolute traversty that is NBA Action '94, where as soon as someone dunks the ball, everyone stops moving and your team run on the spot like clowns. And then you get "Virtual Racing" where it's clearly arcade footage but they still manage to cover the screen in debug text. NFL Football '94 looks reasonable enough though - still very early, but what isn't in that video?)


    Following SCES 1993, World Series Baseball would disappear for a few months, returning in a near-finished state around October-ish. The Mega-CD version was scrapped, while the Mega Drive version was pushed into early 1994. The very different Game Gear version was the only one to make it to market on time (which given most of the work was done, isn't a surprise).
     
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  12. That's interesting. When I heard that there was a Sega CD version of World Series Baseball planned, I speculated that they were considering a localization of Egawa Suguru no Super League CD, but that confirms that it was an enhanced version of the BlueSky-developed Genesis game. That actually would've been a decent release for the time since the Sega CD was surprisingly light on sports games. I think the only baseball game released for it in the U.S. was ESPN Baseball Tonight (which didn't even have a player's association license). I mean, we would all complain about it today because it's a sports game and a Genesis port, but it would've filled a hole in the library and probably would've sold better than Kamen Rider ZO.
     
  13. Ted909

    Ted909

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    Another case I've just read of something briefly popping up on test with little to no notice in Japan, but never releasing there despite still going out in the west - the SDX model of After Burner Climax.

    With no further detail besides the location again (Ikebukuro GiGO, natch) in that post, I went to look at a few things. And on my travels I came back across those am-net location test webpages with many dates, places, and games circa mid 2000s, as well as links to their websites. Not all of them are Sega, but there's a lot to be referenced, and I don't have the time for it all. I have, however, added Psy-Phi's exact locations and correct 2006 dates.

    To briefly go off on a tangent... for a cancelled game that Sega probably haven't even officially acknowledged since, Psy-Phi did get a fair bit of media attention at the time, and even turned up out West at GameWorks, so I think there's a fair amount of ground to be covered here other than just these tests. Certainly more than that other odd scrapped Sega fighter we've seen today.
     
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  14. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    [​IMG]

    SHARON

    Sega sponsored Ozzfest 2000, a rock tour that took place annually for about 20 years. Ozzy Osbourne signed Dreamcasts - The Dreamcast Junkyard ran a piece a few years ago.

    [​IMG]
    There's quite a lot of Dreamcast-related stuff out there, and it went across 28 US cities, so lots of things to absorb.

    [​IMG]

    They made an album.

    [​IMG]

    Disc 2 is an enhanced CD with Sega games. I don't know if this means playable Sega games, but uh... yeah.

    Shoutout to Divine Recordings who manged to spell their own website wrong.
     
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  15. Black Squirrel

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  16. Pirate Dragon

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    Nice find! It has been archived too. Runs on Windows 10. Nothing too interesting on the Sega side, although I haven't seen the Sega.net "movie" before. There is a video of the unreleased "Ozzy's Black Skies", which looks like a bit of a Panzer Dragoon clone.

    [​IMG]
     
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  17. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    Apparently this came out as "Savage Skies" for the PS2.

    "Black Skies" had to go because of 9/11 (though it didn't stop the music), then after being called "Ozzy's Savage Skies" for a bit, Ozzy Osbourne was removed for some reason. And they cancelled the PC and Xbox ports.

    Hilariously this was never due for release on the Dreamcast, and the developer never made another game.
     
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  18. cartridgeculture

    cartridgeculture

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    Okay, here's something.

    This warning card for Hudson Soft's SBom Joycard (that Bomberman-themed Saturn controller) says that, if you start your Saturn with its auto-fire features enabled, there's a chance you could... erase all the save data on your system?

    The Joycard is specifically-designed to rapid-fire a series of presses at certain screens (see: Hu Position), sometimes immediately as the console is powered on, and the warning card says this can activate the Saturn's built-in "data management mode". I can't find anything on this on the wiki, but I might not be using the right terms.

    Is this some kind of... disk formatting mode? How is it activated normally?
     
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  19. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    I think they're covering their bases.

    If you're got a controller that is rapidly pressing A, and you're in the BIOS menu, maybe you could accidentally navigate the wrong menus and erase data. But you'd have to be very quick - you're far more likely to realise the turbo's turned on first.
     
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  20. Chimes

    Chimes

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    Okay, after doing some reading I can confirm that this is indeed Gouraud shading, with Phong's lighting pipeline implemented. Amusingly, it was Speeps's video of the AutoDemo that made me confirm this once and for all: in PRACTICE 3, the bootable test stage, the level has absolutely no lighting file to load except for the ambient base and Sonic's textures, meaning it's stuck on Phase 1 of Phong's lighting pipeline. No diffuse, no specular, nothing.

    With that confirmed, it makes me wonder if Sonic Jam or ST's other games like Nights use Phong's lighting pipeline...

    Maybe this should be added to the wiki idk
     
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