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General Questions and Information Thread

Discussion in 'General Sega Discussion' started by Andlabs, Aug 25, 2011.

  1. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    You're free to improve any of those templates - it saves me from having to maintain them all ;)
     
  2. I'd like to, I just don't know how. The one solution I thought of, adding {{ref}}, didn't work for me when I tried it with Hardware.
     
  3. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    You've just put the code in the wrong place ;)

    Template:Hardware

    Code (Text):
    1. {{Imagetag
    2. | image=
    3. | text=This image is a photo of a [[Game console|video game console]], [[cartridge]] or other hardware.
    4. | imagewidth=
    5. {{ #if: {{{source|}}} | <br>Source: {{{source}}}{{{ref|}}} | }}{{ #if: {{{source|}}} | {{ #if: {{{originalname|}}} | ,&nbsp; | }} | }}{{ #if: {{{originalname|}}} | {{ #if: {{{originalfile|}}} | {{file|{{{originalfile}}}|<tt>{{{originalname}}}</tt>}} | <tt>{{{originalname}}}</tt> }} | }}
    6. }}
    7. <includeonly>[[Category:Photos of {{ #if: {{{1|}}} | {{{1}}} hardware | hardware}}]]</includeonly>
    8. <noinclude>[[Category:Image templates|Hardware]]</noinclude>

    This is how you've got it at the moment - what is it doing? I guess in broad terms, there are three parts to it:

    Lines 1-6 are a call to Template:Imagetag. The rest you don't need to care about for this task - line 7 categorises the page that's calling Template:Hardware, while line 8 categorises the template. This could be simplified but I'm lazy.

    So here's what we're looking at:
    Code (Text):
    1. {{Imagetag
    2. | image=
    3. | text=This image is a photo of a [[Game console|video game console]], [[cartridge]] or other hardware.
    4. | imagewidth=
    5. {{ #if: {{{source|}}} | <br>Source: {{{source}}}{{{ref|}}} | }}{{ #if: {{{source|}}} | {{ #if: {{{originalname|}}} | ,&nbsp; | }} | }}{{ #if: {{{originalname|}}} | {{ #if: {{{originalfile|}}} | {{file|{{{originalfile}}}|<tt>{{{originalname}}}</tt>}} | <tt>{{{originalname}}}</tt> }} | }}
    6. }}

    Templates on Mediawiki can be given arguments, i.e. "information" that they can do stuff with. So if were calling a template called "Bums" it might look like this:

    Code (Text):
    1. {{Bums|arg1|arg2|arg3}}
    To get the arguments in the implementation of Bums, you'd use {{{1}}}, {{{2}}} and {{{3}}}. That's sometimes fine, but if a template is getting complicated, it might be better to give the arguments some identifiers:

    Code (Text):
    1. {{Bums|something=arg1|whatever=arg2|thing=arg3}}
    Then you'd access them in the implementation with {{{something}}}, {{{whatever}}} and {{{thing}}}.

    Or if you want to stand a chance of reading the code:
    Code (Text):
    1. {{Bums
    2. | something=arg1
    3. | whatever=arg2
    4. | thing=arg3
    5. }}
    (this is functionality identical to the above, just slightly easier to parse. Although you have to watch out for line breaks being misinterpreted).

    So for the hardware template above, you're supplying:
    - nothing to {{{image}}}

    - "This image is a photo of a [[Game console|video game console]], [[cartridge]] or other hardware." to {{{text}}}

    - "{{ #if: {{{source|}}} | <br>Source: {{{source}}}{{{ref|}}} | }}{{ #if: {{{source|}}} | {{ #if: {{{originalname|}}} | ,&nbsp; | }} | }}{{ #if: {{{originalname|}}} | {{ #if: {{{originalfile|}}} | {{file|{{{originalfile}}}|<tt>{{{originalname}}}</tt>}} | <tt>{{{originalname}}}</tt> }} | }}" to {{{imagewidth}}}


    Basically, you're giving the extra text to the {{{imagewidth}}} argument rather than {{{text}}}. You can inspect the generated HTML in your browser of choice (or press F12) - you'll probably see a broken <div> somewhere.



    Incidentally the text you're adding is essentially "if {{{source}}} exists, write xxxxx here", then the same for {{{originalname}}} and {{{originalfile}}}. That's probably all fine though.


    Our templates are often inconsistent because they've been written by multiple people over the span of 15+ years. And there's no "standard" way of writing MediaWiki code. And not everyone fully understands what they're doing (including me sometimes).
     
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  4. Thanks, that all worked out, glad to have learned a bit about coding. Well, I did completely move over the text from imagewidth to text, so hopefully imagewidth didn't need it (but I can add them back in otherwise). Gonna lose laptop battery in a couple minutes, but I can add it to them all when the power's back.

    Also, with images that depict multiple things, I'm not sure now if it should be added to everything being shown, or just once. It does take up a lot of space, so maybe users would find it obstructive? Very unsure myself. If not on everybody, it could be the top thing listed, the bottom thing, or even a separate line below them all.

    Example with source/originalname/originalfile listed for every individual.
    File:AMAnnex STCCSuzuka Sega Magazine JP issue03.jpg
    Example with source/original name only listed once at the top. (also has a reference)
    File:YujiNaka MutsuhiroFujii SummerCES1986.jpg
    Example with source/original name only listed once below every thing. (also has a reference)
    File:H. GamenoHi 01.jpg
     
  5. JaxTH

    JaxTH

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    Jack shit.
    I know we have a group Template on Sonic Retro.
     
  6. cartridgeculture

    cartridgeculture

    Wiki Contributor Member
    For the moment, I think this one works best.

    On this note, I'd really like to see the People template updated to support multiple people within the same template. Not only would this cut down on page chonk, it would also solve the issue of redundant and repeated information. We could even incorporate some kind of location= variable (like we have with date=) to further consolidate things.
     
  7. JaxTH

    JaxTH

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  8. Ah, so not a template itself but variables within the Art template.
    That doesn't get sorted each character's categories, though, but its own Category:Artwork of groups. I guess that's alright when it can also be in categories for authors and games they're illustrated for, but when it's groups of people, toys, hardware, vehicles, there's not very many other categories it can be found through. Maybe Event, like Summer CES. Or location, like CartridgeCulture mentioned,
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2023
  9. doc eggfan

    doc eggfan

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  10. biggestsonicfan

    biggestsonicfan

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    ALWAYS Sonic the Fighters
    There's a fb group I'm a part of that is clearing out an otaku's house and selling the contents. These are from their latest batch, and I dunno if I should try to nab anything for the wiki:
    363294448_10229836211920362_9049156976710598077_n.jpg 363295371_10229836214000414_7927633337906669254_n.jpg 363315870_10229836212480376_580938828997672819_n.jpg 362691444_10229836216320472_2609367171584049481_n.jpg 362689295_10229836212760383_1338420069095474357_n.jpg 363358478_10229836215480451_1019465408980813572_n.jpg 363410858_10229836214200419_2962241465289917296_n.jpg
     
  11. Woah that's a lot of Dorimaga issues! Maybe half of them match what we've already got scans of?
    Category:Dorimaga scans
     
  12. biggestsonicfan

    biggestsonicfan

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    ALWAYS Sonic the Fighters
    Guess I should ask about these 7? (one issue is there twice, I will ask for the better quality issue)
    Dorimaga.jpg
    EDIT: They were already sold. RIP.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2023
  13. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    A whole bunch of Play Meter scans are coming through on archive.org. Obviously we'd like copies too, but some are pushing 1GB, which is a lot of effort for two or three relevant pages. That and it's often too much for Retro CDN - I wish someone was around to solve it!

    Anyway
    https://archive.org/details/play-meter-volume-8-number-21-november-1st-1982/page/92/mode/2up?q=sega

    Anyone and their dog can sell Sega merchandise these days, so I could never bring myself to cover clothing on Sega Retro (spoilers: someone else needs to). But I'll make an exception for 40+ year old t-shirts, since the chances of finding them are neigh-on impossible.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    2/3. I can't find the Turbo one (and yes they might have all come in different sizes).

    I'm sure there were gaming T-shirts before these, but they might be the first Sega-related ones.
     
  14. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    [​IMG]

    ooh - now I know what I'm looking for.
     
  15. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    It's shocking how poorly the arcade industry is documented. Let's try and fix a thing.

    Ken Horowitz's book from 2018, "The Sega Arcade Revolution"

    [​IMG]
    Now this is a story all about how Frogger clones got flipped turned upside down.

    It's lifted from a December 1981 issue of Cash Box:
    https://retrocdn.net/index.php?title=File:CashBox_US_1981-12-12.pdf&page=45

    and if you need it repeated, here's a January 1982 edition of Play Meter:
    https://archive.org/details/play-meter-volume-8-number-2-january-15th-1982/page/52/mode/2up?q=sega


    Sega took on three British arcade companies and won, according to the US media. And this is why wikis are better: this isn't the end of the story.

    There's no hope in hell of finding "Computer Video Services" and "London Conversion Company" right now - the names are too generic to cut through Google searches. Mysterious unknown companies with mysterious unknown Frogger clones - it's a non-starter without more scans. But I can find Omni Micro Technology:

    [​IMG]
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/138474148@N03/

    Apparently Sega took away Omni's "Leapfrog Gamepack". Supposedly their entire business model was to take Galaxian boards and modify them to take ROM cartridges, and "Leapfrog", a Frogger clone, was one of them. As you can see from that Flickr post, there's a list of instructions for a dozen Gamepacks that Omni were presumably selling, and just a reminder, none of this is documented, dumped or emulated. I'm not sure MAME even knows this system exists.

    There is no reference to "Leapfrog", but there is a "Frogger". What gives?

    [​IMG]
    https://archive.org/details/leisure-play-3-2/page/n43/mode/2up?q=omni+gamepack
    January 1982 - according to Omni, their Frogger is licensed. As in, that's the main focus of the ad - surely you wouldn't print this if it weren't true.

    I've no doubt it would take some time for the news to fly over the Atlantic, but yeah - sounds like they scrapped the unofficial clones and got official Sega licensing.


    Fetch.
     
  16. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    [​IMG]
    https://archive.org/details/leisure-play-2-11/page/n21/mode/2up

    So is that one licensed?


    Anyway Sega took a Mr. John Richards of "Trolfame" (formely "Competitive Video") to court in 1982 over Frogger copies, and won. It looks like Coin Slot International is the magazine of choice for such matters - there are no scans.
     
  17. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    Every day's a school day.

    "Sega Enterprises Ltd. v. Richards" (1983) is one of the earliest cases of video game copyright law being tested, and is the foundation of... not being allowed to copy video games.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2023
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  18. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    It's difficult to envison this even after all these years, but there was never a point in Sega's history (or I guess, the history Sega themselves acknowledge) where they weren't one of the top arcade companies in the world. Because of this, you find them everywhere - I'm still (re)discovering weird edge cases.

    Like



    This is Crowns Golf. It's a 1984 game by a small Japanese developer, Nasco.

    [​IMG]
    I can only make a guess on the precise history, since all the dates are just "1984" but my current bet is it was picked up by Esco Trading for distribution in Japan. If you've been doing your homework, you'll know that Esco was Sega president Hayao Nakayamaā€ˇ's company, which was eaten by Sega in 1979 (though kept trading under the Esco name for some reason).

    From this, it looks like Sega ended up with worldwide distribution rights, but for whatever reason didn't distribute the game themselves. Maybe it didn't gel with the fancy System 1 games that were starting to release around this time, who knows.


    [​IMG]
    Instead it was sold as a conversion kit by Kitco (maybe also known as "Kitcorp" - I assume they're the same thing). If you see one of these cabinets in the wild, chances are it may have been a Defender*, Stargate, Robotron 2084 or Joust machine in an earlier life. Because there was genuinely a time where these were seen as old hat and worth replacing.

    Which is incredibly short-sighted thinking - yes it was 100 years before the Robotrons are set to come and kill us all, but we don't know who the last remaining human family will be - you ought to get the training in early!


    Alternatively,
    [​IMG]
    You could play Crowns Golf as a "Countercade" game. This was a tabletop machine with changable boards (called "Game Brains"), and is an exceedingly rare find today. I can't even confirm Crowns Golf was actually released for the system, but it was advertised!

    [​IMG]
    And because life is strange, Atari Games licensed the game and produced full size cabinets.

    This is just as illusive, and the as the flyer lists a British address, could have been indended for the UK. I haven't looked much into this, but the street was apparently radioactive in 2008, so obviously something happened here.


    How did I miss the Sega connection for so long? Well it's not mentioned in-game...
    [​IMG]
    ... and it's in tiny letters on the Kitcorp marquee.
    [​IMG]
    The only obvious indication is the control panel, and this is pretty much the only photo online... because it's a 40 year old golf game and nobody cares.




    *apparently Williams manufactured 55,000 Defender machines - waaaaaaay more than anyone could ever need once the novelty wore off, so they were converted into loads of games.
     
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  19. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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