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Could a "good" Chaotix remake be done now?

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by E-122-Psi, Apr 22, 2023.

Would you go for a remake of Chaotix?

  1. Yes

    73 vote(s)
    80.2%
  2. No

    18 vote(s)
    19.8%
  1. E-122-Psi

    E-122-Psi

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    This is something I've been pondering over. Chaotix is a game that people are dwelling over a rerelease since while it is a rare novelty, it is also a REALLY undercooked game with bland levels and unpolished mechanics. I believe Taxman specifically stated in the past that a Chaotix remake would likely not reach enough potential to make a solid title like the trilogy and CD because they'd need to make more intergral changes to the game than SEGA would likely allow them to.

    However, looking at Chaotix's levels recently, I've noticed something. I always thought the actual layouts were the problem and were rather bland and repetitive, but the more I look the more it seems like, at least for SOME levels, that the problem is the total lack of objects in them and how even the ones that are there aren't placed carefully enough to challenge the character's abilities. Even basic staples like spikes, platforms and badniks are used VERY sparingly, when often these are placed strategically to make a level difficult to cheese through (eg. all you'd need to do is place a few spikes on walls and ceilings and that depletes the ability to just wall jump or dash your way to the top of the level, and that also would lead to more narrow areas where you are forced to deal with badniks and their attacks, or blocked upward areas where you need to RELY on jumping on platforms to reach higher).

    It feels like with Origins, SEGA is being slightly more lax with what can be added to remakes, or at the very least loopholes can be made (eg. new content and modes can be added so long as the option for the original game with the proper authentic experience is still available in some form). Very minor tune ups are also allowed to be made, meaning the player physics and some pace breakers like the very slow lifts could possibly also be rectified.

    I do wonder if this point a genuinely good, or at least decent version of Chaotix could made, say with both a 'classic' and 'enhanced' mode, the former being the original game and the latter being one with more intricate object layout and maybe even a few extra gimmicks added that didn't make it into the final game (eg. actual water added to Marina Madness). Do you think it's theoretically possible?
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2023
  2. Pengi

    Pengi

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    I'm going to say "Yes", but it would have to be a remake that takes a lot of liberties.

    In short, it would need to get the Sonic Mania treatment, a full re-imagining of every level and every boss. The two-character system would also need to be revised, whether it keeps the rubber band, or goes for something more akin to Mania Encore Mode or Advance 3.
     
  3. Vertette

    Vertette

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    It's definitely possible. Chaotix could be a worthwhile experience if someone polished up the mechanics and finished the levels, but at that point you'd have to change the game so much the question becomes if it's worth it. At a certain point, you might as well just make a new game.
     
  4. E-122-Psi

    E-122-Psi

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    That's why I'd be interested in a version that kept the core level design but just fleshed out the object layout and toggled the odd key gimmick here and there. Sort of the equivelent to Sonic 3D Director's Cut or Sonic Jam's difficulty modes where it's trying to prove the key game wasn't the issue but more it wasn't set up to its full potential with some subtle but effective tune ups.

    Heck even if we don't get a remake, I think there's potential just making an object editor for the original Chaotix just to see if the layouts can be toggled effectively to make a more compelling game with what is already there.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2023
  5. The Joebro64

    The Joebro64

    SAY HELLO TO MY CHOCOLATE BLEND Member
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    I feel like a potential remake of Chaotix would be like trying to make Sonic '06 good: you'd keep a few things, like the concepts and the soundtrack, but by and large you'd essentially be making a brand-new game. In Chaotix's case, I'd say the entirety of the level design and the team-up mechanics need from-the-ground-up reworks. I'd say a good remake could be done, though. I think a team-up system more in line with Sonic Advance 3's and level design more in line with the classics, while keeping the same soundtrack and level settings, would be fun.
     
  6. LordOfSquad

    LordOfSquad

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    making cool music no one gives a shit about
    Chaotix is definitely unfinished but I don't think it needs quite as much finishing as people think it does either, it's still pretty fun despite its weirdness. I think most people just either don't have a friend to play it with, and/or don't like having to wrap their head around the can of physics worms that the rubber band opens up.
     
  7. E-122-Psi

    E-122-Psi

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    I've played with friends before, and are problem tends to be more the levels are bland to play and we get bored after a while due to lack of intuition.

    I agree this likely isn't as core a problem as it seems however, it's more down to the fact the levels are EMPTY and thus there's a pure lack of obstacles preventing us just cheesing the level or recklessly tether springing all over the place. Any Sonic level would be dull if you took out most of its clever object placement.

    For example Amazing Arena has some bouncy platforms that encourage both players cooperating to give it weight....but....you can just wall jump or air dash above to the destination anyway. There's a lack of air hazards or ceiling/wall spikes that could punish a reckless dash upward, there's nothing encouraging players to take the platforms as the safer choice and in some cases you'll not even notice it.

    It's very much equivelent to the big vertical block sequence in Chemical Plant Act 2 and how you can use a spin jump to short cut over the whole thing, the difference is that due to layout, that trick requires you to master the physics of the game first and you will likely play the main route at least once beforehand, while Chaotix's gimmicks can be skipped over by just spamming the base abilities, it's not a skill reward.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2023
  8. Remake Knuckles' Chaotix as a metroidvania game + Encore Mode mechanics. With that I guess we can have some really good game.
     
  9. Shaddy the guy

    Shaddy the guy

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    I'd rather just have a ROM hack that replaces the level design and lets you play them in order. And maybe doesn't apply the other character's physics unless you're holding the button.
     
  10. Yuzu

    Yuzu

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    Honestly I think remaking it with encore mode mechanics and entirely different level designs + enemy placements could make it work. The game as it is now is just pretty boring. It’s also possible that someone could make a great game out of the existing Chaotix ring mechanics too.

    Amazing aesthetics + OST though.
     
  11. Speaking about the OST, should it be changed to more "modern" instruments? Honestly, I think it is just perfect as it is.
     
  12. Yuzu

    Yuzu

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    I seriously think the OST is perfect as it is. I wouldn’t be against a rearranged OST though as long as it would have the original soundtrack as an option in a hypothetical remake.
     
  13. saxman

    saxman

    Oldbie Tech Member
    I have thought about what it'd be like to remake this. I've been interested for a long time, but life and priorities keep me from it (as well as so much more). If I got paid to do it, then it'd be a different story.

    This was always one of my absolute favorite "Sonic" games. Today, I can tell it's very rushed. But even then, there's still a lot there to be loved.

    On the OST, I always loved the music in this game. Really well done. Probably the only songs I felt needed polish were the invincibility theme, and the good ending song. I will also say that I feel higher quality drum/percussion samples would have been nice, because they have lots of mids and lows, while the synths have lots of bright waves going on. I'd like to hear a bit more brightness to those samples too.

    I think a remake could be done. But I don't see Sega paying to have that done.
     
  14. Fadaway

    Fadaway

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    Just make the tethering thing a one-time stage gimmick somewhere or a new monitor power up. Then, redo everything in the levels. Basically, change the whole game. Might as well give it a new title, too. I like the comment about making it a Metroidvania. Sure. That's nifty.
     
  15. Sparks

    Sparks

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    Sondro Gomez / Kyle & Lucy
  16. TheOcelot

    TheOcelot

    Scooty Puff Jr sucks! Member
    I'd be down for a remake which removes Heavy & Bomb and adds Sonic, Tails, Amy & Ray. They could restore some of the original scrapped ideas such as include those isometric hub worlds which appear briefly in Sonic Crackers. Perhaps reduce the number of acts from 5 to 3 and make the level design feel less generic. Add a finite lives system & super form for collecting the chaos rings. Also include a seventh special stage.

    [​IMG]

    I think the only chance of any kind of new release happening would be if the community produces a proof of concept (like Taxman did with CD) and then SEGA green-lights a remaster/remake.
     
  17. HEDGESMFG

    HEDGESMFG

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    Honestly, I just want a ROM hack that removes the combii and places springs in a few select spots. There are only a handful of areas in the entire game that require it for progress. Use a Sonic Heroes style switching system or something, maybe. It would not take much to make it playable as a regular platformer with a more traditional gimmick. I've poured over the maps myself and can identify a small handful of points.
     
  18. Azookara

    Azookara

    yup Member
    Glad to see my Chaotix remake pitch get referenced, haha. I still think of it every now and then. Here's all the mockups I did.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    I really love Chaotix's music, visuals and characters; it gives you an idea what a 2D Saturn Sonic game would've been like. But I don't think there's anything you can take from the game without having to remix it hard in vein of Mania. The stages need gimmicks and setpieces to spice it up; not just better object placement. There's also a real lack of any tiles made for the game that aren't quarter/half pipe structures. There's a lot of reinventing that has to be done.

    I also believe the team mechanic just doesn't work for one player, and a better mechanic probably needs to be made in it's stead. I personally vote for a Mania Plus Encore mode kind of style, or like the Sonic Triple Trouble 16-bit remake. The tether mechanic would be good for a 2 player coop game, however.
     
  19. McAleeCh

    McAleeCh

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    If there ever was an official remake of Chaotix and the devs were given carte blanche to revise and refine the game compared to the original, I'd hope they'd be given access to as much of the original development documentation as possible. It'd be fascinating to see a version built to resemble whatever the game was planned to be rather than what was released, as whatever you think of the final product it's clear that corners were (or had to be?) cut on everything bar music and artwork.
     
  20. charcoal

    charcoal

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    Depends on what 'remake' means. If it's just slapping it into a the Retro engine with widescreen, no I would not want that. It's not a good game and some slight improvements like those wouldn't help. They would have to completely overhaul the rubber band system, level design, and overall structure. The only things that could remain are the visuals, OST, and basic ideas. And at that point you might as well just make an entirely new game because a Chaotix remake would not sell well regardless of how overhauled it is.

    I personally do think Chaotix could be made good, and I'd like to play that good version of Chaotix, but it'll never happen in a million years unless it's a fan project like P-06.