A Question about Supers

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Glaber, Dec 24, 2019.

does Super Everyone reduce character diversity?

  1. yes

    19.3%
  2. no

    80.7%
  1. Glaber

    Glaber

    Has Beaten Sonic Genesis for GBA Oldbie
    Recently in another part of the internet, the idea was brought up that Super as a reward for getting all the chaos emeralds reduced character diversity. Part of this argument was that when you go super you're discouraged from using your character abilities and are just running around collecting rings without them.

    Personally I don't buy this as I still use character abilities when I go super as Tails, Knuckles, or anyone else, but I figured I would get some more opinions from a more general part of the Sonic Community.
     
  2. SpeedStarTMQ

    SpeedStarTMQ

    Here for The Hedgehog. Member
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    I disagree, because whenever I go super with any of the characters all I end up doing is spamming their moves (Knuckles’ gliding, Tails’ flying) to my detriment, because I usually end up messing up the game and getting trapped or insta-killed.

    Super is a reward anyway, so you have to be good enough to earn it which means by that point you’ve probably already mastered the game.
     
  3. Nova

    Nova

    オ カ エ リ ナ サ λ Site Staff
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    Yeah, at the point you've earned a Super form for a particular character, you'll have played as them enough to know what their abilities are about and don't really need to use them, so it's just like a temporary simplification of the game design at that point. I don't think it reduces character diversity, at least not in a meaningful way.
     
  4. Echoing the others... Super is a good reward, and I don't think it's ever been too easy for the average player to get it
     
  5. Hez

    Hez

    Asshole Oldbie
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    I agree with everyone on this one. However, I think the ring drain in the original was too slow. I felt like I could stay super forever in some levels. I wanted it to be a bit more of a temporary reward; better than an invincibility box and speed shoes, but not a press right to win scenario.
     
  6. Laughingcow

    Laughingcow

    Resident Edgelord PHD Member
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    If there is no super form then why the fuck should I bother collecting Chaos emeralds? I put in the work so I can cheese my way through stuff. It's not a question of "using character abilities", it's a matter of rewarding the player for completing an optional challenge. Arguing that it breaks the game in some way is irrelevant...because that's the fucking point.
     
  7. Childish

    Childish

    A boy with a new hair cut Member
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    If you include hyper characters it basically does the opposite. Hyper Sonic has the hyper dash, (S3K) Super Tails has the Hyper Flickys of Death TM and Hyper Knuckles destroys all enemies on the screen when he lands.
     
  8. Gestalt

    Gestalt

    Sphinx in Chains Member
    Isn't that clever? At least they didn't give them the ability to fly like in Smash Bros. or Egg Reverie (which would have really broken the game.)
     
  9. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

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    I don't really see how going Super discourages the player from using Tails' flight or Knuckles' glide, when those abilities gain a speed buff too. I definitely make use of them when I'm Super, being able to blindly fly/glide without worrying about bumping into some hazard is one of my favorite parts.

    It sounds to me like the problem is that some people assume everyone plays the game the same way they do.
     
  10. Dek Rollins

    Dek Rollins

    size of a tangerine Member
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    I'm surely in the minority here, but I'm not a huge fan of the super forms. Not because it breaks the game or discourages character moves, but because it takes away from what makes the games fun for me. The actual gameplay, the physics, the hazards. A lot of that goes away when Sonic becomes an invincible, somewhat difficult to control super speedy boy who can jump extreme hights on a whim.

    The concept is fine and it's fun to jump around through a level as Super Sonic, but on a regular playthrough it actually gives me less incentive to try for the emeralds. I only go for emeralds every time in Sonic 1.
     
  11. ICEknight

    ICEknight

    Researcher Researcher
    Even the music.

    Getting all the emeralds is certainly not something that should be attempted on a first-ever run of any classic Sonic game.
     
  12. Pengi

    Pengi

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    I agree. It was always weird how the games rewarded the most skilled players with easy mode. Especially after Sonic 2 when rings became more plentiful and the risk/reward factor was reduced.
     
  13. McAleeCh

    McAleeCh

    Oldbie
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    This is why I really like how Mania handled the Super forms - having a dedicated 'transform' button not used for anything else means that while they're just as easy to use as previous games once unlocked, they're also completely avoidable if you don't want to use them. I love the Super forms, but also love having the option of doing a 'normal' playthrough on my completed all-emeralds save slots...! = )
     
  14. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

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    I don't see what's so weird about that, it's pretty common for games to reward players with an extremely powerful upgrade or piece of equipment for completing a really challenging or laborious optional task. Game design 101, a reward should be directional proportional to the effort.
     
  15. tokumaru

    tokumaru

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    I absolutely suck at collecting emeralds, so I hardly get to see any super forms anyway...
     
  16. Glaber

    Glaber

    Has Beaten Sonic Genesis for GBA Oldbie
    Even if you don't like how easy super makes everything, that isn't the point of this topic. The point is to figure out if everyone being able to go super reduces character diversity.
     
  17. LocalH

    LocalH

    roxoring your soxors Tech Member
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    wouldn't you like to know
    Super Guitar Hero II
    Unless it's Sonic 1 lmao
     
  18. Prototype

    Prototype

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    I suppose it depends on how you play, but I don't think it necessarily reduces character diversity. That being said, I'd rather enjoy if the Super forms were differentiated more. Maybe give each character an extra ability unique to that character, which is I suppose what Hyper did.
     
  19. Character diversity? I don't see how going Super or Hyper would have any effect on Sonic's race, gender or religion.

    I'm kiiiiding. :V

    In all seriousness, I see it as a supplement to already established abilities. In other words, your character isn't complete unless you unlock it. It has rules, you can't stay in that form forever, if the ring counter hits zero, your back to normal anyways.

    Bottom line is, you actually have a choice to gain these abilities and/or choices to execute them. Well, not so much a choice in execution in Sonic 2, but still.
     
  20. Sir_mihael

    Sir_mihael

    DON'T TRUST THIS MAN Member
    Definitely this.
    Super Tails's birds and Hyper Sonic's air-attack were great for giving some new ammunition and ways to tackle the levels.

    Also, random thought but would giving each character their own unique 'Super' theme tune help seperate the feel of each one a bit more? Imagine if Super Knuckles' theme was some overdrive version of his character theme instead of the usual generic tune? Just an idea.