Sonic Generations Megathread

Yes, but speed boosters were never placed on the long diagonal dips in the level as SEGA encouraged rolling down them to gain speed and momentum. It seems that they placed speed boosters to mimic that effect, rather than leaving Sonic to do it on his own.

 

Or we simply haven't considered that potential yet. So far when it comes to neat 2.5D effects I've noticed the depth parallax effect they have between the camera and the background layers, as well as paths that bring you forward into and backward from the foreground. The point behind wanting that 1:1 function between old and new code is to faithfully recreate the style and feel of the old Genesis gameplay in a newly designed game without resorting to scripts. People want to roll around and watch Sonic zip all over the screen with the help of building up momentum into inertia, not just with boosters and springs. It promotes a smoother, more free game feel when scripts are minimized or removed and gaining speed with momentum and inertia are less capped. That Sonic Generations accomplishes this ideal much better than previous attempts should not be underplayed, but still leaves room for improvement and appropriate innovations.

 

Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying the game play mechanics shouldn't be made to match the old games. I'm just saying doing it by hacking apart Mega Drive emulation is an ugly method. By scripts I'm not talking about scripted events (e.g. forced loops), I'm talking about scripting languages that allow artists and designers to create content for game engines.

Take for example Donkey Kong Country Returns. Retro Studios spent a lot of time in the pre-production stage researching the original SNES games to get the feel and controls to a T. They used a completely new set of code and engine and the end result was a game that not only felt true to the originals, but arguably went beyond in terms of features.

 

Ironic about DKCR there because I don't think it feels anything like the SNES games at all. DK is super heavy feeling, in a way that he wasn't on the SNES.

 

Oh really? Haha well considering I hardly played snes DKC I could be wrong. Guess it's how Sonic 4 feels to non-Sonic fans lolz.

Still, it was well-crafted. And in the grand scheme of things, physics are just one piece of the puzzle when it comes to designing a Sonic game. A central one granted, but to sacrifice practicality in the name of using the Mega Drive 68k verbatim goes beyond what I'd call good engine design. (End of opinion :P)

 

I really hate when he says this, when the Game Gear is blatantly ignored. It seriously pisses me off to no end! How can the game give players the opportunity to experience the 'Handheld History of Sonic' without including the Game Gear games? What makes it worse is that the gamegear games were actually on a SEGA-made handheld console! Why does SEGA percieve the handheld history of Sonic to only include the ones made in the last 10 years (and on the GBA/DS)? And if this is because DIMPS can't extend their creativity and abilities past games they've developed, then that is just plain sad. I'd rather Izuka come out and say that, rather than continue to spout lies.

 

Sorry for going a little Generations off-topic here. But I feel I have to respond to LocalH's idea. I am very much against it for a key reason:

Taking an original Sonic game and remove one or more of its quality strengths, would seriously damage the original title. Especially for us, that need those original titles as proof and inheritance (life support).




Saying that, I am sure people won't understand or care. We have all seen the Mushroom Hill 2.5 3D render video, and it is awesome! It basically says 3D graphics and effects would give Sonic 3 & Knuckles a whole new experience, and it looks good. But the basic of the original Sonic requires many things to be above a certain quality level, where we already know Mushroom Hill 2.5 3D graphics passed, as well as the original graphics passed. When coming to physics (using emulation), it would pass if you map it to 1x1 pixel units, but any other aspect ratios would be below the quality level:

3D objects would have individual scales, overlapping, twitching, and wobbling during interation (Just picture Saturn's Daytona USA polygon wobble), and as that happens, you loose game feeling as in "my brain saw at that moment it was possible to play the game, but when I did respond to it, it failed".

The motions of every object, including path collision would grid step (The smallest visible unit in original Sonic is a pixel, and scaling that up at any resolution would result in terrible visuals).


There are hundreds of objects in Sonic 3 & Knuckles that were specifically designed to work on pixel paths, and many of them have predefined data, so you would have to reprogram so much that it would be impractical.

Orignal Sonic player's motion is fixed point and can easily be converted into floating point to get a smooth motion for HD play, but as I stated above, all interations, including running in loops, down or up slope, will be like running on a staircase.


3D enhance an original Sonic game at a 1x1 aspect resolution will basically only enhance the perspective visuals (if you like seeing low res 3D models rotate while running). The perspective visuals is what I think Sonic Generation succeeded the best.


As LocalH said it, it is possible to do all that, and it would be a fun project, especially for all the 3D model people here. As for Sonic Team making it, and we helping with disassemblies, the result would be worse than Sonic Generation, and we would complain even more and blame ourselves (we can't do that as the world would end).




Back to Sonic Generations, it is a game created by listening to the fans, but only up to a point where Iizuka takes over because he owns Sonic. He wants speed and boosters and all that. So it is not a game I would choose to play.

 

I loved the shit out of DKCR. Definitely worth getting a Wii for.

On topic, Sonic Generations 3DS still looks like absolute shit.

 

Sort of generations related. Look what I found in my gamestop subscription e-ad today:


Its from the ad here. looks like we get an xb360 extra as well!

 

I'm so getting that pet motobug :> (most likely if the PC version, God forbid, gets canned).

Also, I heard someone say that all the 20th anniversary toys contain levels that are going to be in Generations, and that seems accurate since Sonic's in Green Hill Zone and Tails is in Chemical Plant, both confirmed for Generations. I wonder what's going to be the toy for Sky Sanctuary...

 

Probably going to go down to Gamestop and pick that up tomorrow. (18 year-old picking up a toy? That seems normal...RIGHT?!)

Also, I seriously hope the 3DS version comes with something special too, would be nice if it came with a Soundtrack. I'm also going to pre-order both the Xbox 360 and Nintendo 3DS version while I'm down there.

 

I'd do it. I'll be 25 in a few weeks. Hell, I'll probably get at least Classic Sonic this weekend.

Edit: Wow, I'm an asshole tonight.

 

Knuckles.

 

Green Hill- C.Sonic and Motobug
Chemical Plant- C.Tails and Grabber
Sky Sanctuary- C.Eggman and two Egg Robos
Speed Highway- M.Sonic and Spinner
City Escape- Shadow and Beetle
Seaside Hill- M.Knuckles and Egg Pawn
Crisis City- Silver and Biter
Rooftop Run- M.Eggman and two Egg Fighters
Planet Wisp- M.Tails and Sandworm

That's not all there is however- there's the Classic and Modern Super Pack with no specific level, and a comic pack with C.Sonic and C.Amy. Apparently Jazwares also confirmed a few other figures (like C.Knuckles) on their Facebook page. So yeah, the toy list did eventually prove to be the Generations line. Our biggest clue should have been the Grabber art that appeared on the prototype.

 

Well, I don't really see it as removing a quality strength, to be honest. The biggest part, to me, that makes the original titles so good is the gameplay - the physics, collision, player handling, and enemy behaviors. Of course, those who would do the art for such an endeavor would merely have the same responsibilities as you guys on the S2HD team (and I remember earlier on y'all were gonna stick with accuracy to the original graphics as a main key, but then it was decided that things should be improved to take full advantage of the higher resolution while still being majorly inspired by the originals, but not to the point of making ugly bushes just because they're accurate to the original bushes, for example).

I'm sure the 3D engine, being tailored specifically to the Sonic engine, could smooth out object placement somewhat so that you don't see the "jumps" that you'd see if you did a pure X/Y mapping, since the original games are limited to an absolute max of 65536x65536 pixels for a level (and I'm pretty sure there's a smaller engine limit anyway, that's just what you could do without extending the coordinates to 32-bit per axis). It would take quality work, sure, not shovelware work, but I think it would have the ability to be a true reinvisioning of the visual and aural experience, while striving to keep the gameplay itself 100% accurate. I could, however, see another method that may or may not be as much work for the same quality - port the engine rather than emulate it, but ensure that the port logic is step for step the same as the 68k, and then extend things out as necessary to support finer precision.

I seriously doubt such a project would be worse, given the work that some of the Sonic sceners have done to outright trump the fuck out of Sega. The problem may be getting some of those people on board, but I don't think scener involvement would negatively impact it (outside of perhaps maybe lack of modern game development, but if any of us helped, it would be more on the emulated side of things, assisting with ensuring that the emulator knows what every bit of RAM represents at all times. Yeah, people might bitch because of Sonic Team's involvement, but you'll always have that unless the original Sonic Team rebanded. Nothing's going to be as good as S1-3K for a large chunk of the people who have played the shit out of the old games. Wouldn't it be awesome, though, if for something like Sonic's 30th or 35th anniversary, the original Sonic Team came back to remake the original games in their vision (and they have the right to do so, it being their original vision in the first place), with scener assistance when necessary (if requested and offered by sceners, of course)? As long as they wouldn't pull a Lucas and try to change too much, I think it'd be a very fitting thing to do for such an occasion.

I do have to say, Generations is shaping up to be the best modern Sonic game so far, in my eyes (with MAYBE the exception of SA1, but this is getting pretty close). This is not to put it anywhere near the lofty status the MD games have, but there is definitely an attention to detail, in the way that the fans want, that I haven't seen from Sega in quite a while. After the debacles of S2k6 and S4E1, Generations is at least shaping up to be a solid 14 karat turd-shape instead of a 10-karat gold plated and shit-filled turd, and there's still room for it to even be less of a turd if things keep going the way they're going now. At this point, I'm leaning about 60/40 on the side of "buy or rent" (assuming I can get my 360 working again).

 

I totally agree. That would be actually pretty amazing, and if anyone who liked the Classic games bitched at those games, they would be ass-heads permanently since they're complaining about SEGA not staying true to the classics (it not being sidescrolling I guess, if the original team had a different vision) when in reality they were staying true to their original idea, the idea that, although limited at the time, everyone loved. :P

Also shit, 30th/35th anniversary. Wonder if Sonic will keep on going that long o_o (and why not 25th? :P)

 

Because it'd probably take that long to get as much of the original Team as possible to come together to work on such a project. =P

 

So, with Sonic 4: Episode 2 in development. How do they plan to explain the plot hole they created with Sonic Generations' plot? Classic Sonic is obviously the younger version of Current Generation Sonic. And Sonic 4 is set directly after S3K, so why is Modern Sonic in Sonic 4? Did he have a sudden growth spurt after the events of Sonic and Knuckles? Is he there due to time holes, with Classic Sonic offscreen? Is Sonic Generations set in a different continuity?

EDIT: Fixed the awkward wording.

 

I think the real question is if the continuity in a Sonic game is really worth discussing...
...This is going to be the subject of the next few pages, isn't it?

 

Considering this is a game about revisiting past sonic games, I don't think discussing continuity is exactly outrageous.