Sonic Generations Megathread

- The 3DS version of the game was announced, which will have different zones (besides Green Hill) than the console versions. You can
- The game may also come to PC.
- A video preview showed that the score that you get at the end of a stage is converted into points, which you can probably use to unlock things.
- The game will be playable at a Sonic community event called Sonic Boom on Wednesday June 8th in Los Angeles, more info here: http://www.sonicretro.org/2011/05/be-a-par...ommunity-event/

Not sure what else was announced during those 62 pages.

 

As far as the whole "Levels should be more like Adventure and less like Unleashed" I get what you're saying but we should want something else. When I think of linearity at it's finest, I look no further than Sonic Adventure 2. Sonic Adventure 1 is pretty guilty of this too but not as much, there are at least some paths. SA2 is pretty closed though. Honestly I found there to be more exploration in the Unleashed levels then I did in the Adventure levels.

Should Sonic games have levels that don't make you boost all the time and let you take multiple paths to get to the end of a level? Perhaps. Honestly I love the Sonic Unleashed gameplay and that's why I'm so excited for this game, it takes my two favorite Sonic gameplay types and puts them in one game. That's all I need. But did did they really put all that much variety in Sonic Adventure 1 or 2 (and to some extent Heroes)? Hell no. I sure do remember all those branching paths in Pyramid Cave... oh wait.

I would love for Sonic to keep his current gameplay and give Tails a more Sonic Adventure 1 Sonic experience. He can explore and more at a speed similar to SA1 Sonic. Knuckles could do that too. I enjoy the high speed boost fest that was Unleashed day time and Colors, yep I'll admit it. I love the classics too, and the Adventure series was alright, but Unleashed is loads more fun IMO then Unleashed was, at least in terms of Sonic's gameplay.

 

Sorry if this was already brought up, but could it be that Sonic's new speed almost forces him to have Unleashed-like levels due to how big the Unleashed levels truly are? There are of course limits on the size of a game level, and I think if the levels were made more explorable, they'd also end up shorter, or even less detailed.

 

Yeah, making all the background stuff isn't even close to "most of the hard work". Visuals are hard to do and all, but the real hard part is designing the actual level and how it will play out.

I don't really know how to explain what I'm trying to say but really, everything in the background has nothing to do with what is required for an ACTUAL level.

 

One major complaint I have with the Unleashed engine only comes into play when you are forced to slow down. For instance, in the Arid Sands act where you have to find the Chao. The controls clearly aren't designed to handle movement in an open world, and it just feels very stiff. It's also obvious when searching for some of the Medals off the beaten path. This was never really a problem in the Adventure titles. However, in the Adventure titles going FAST would often lead to the camera glitching or your character falling through a wall. Unleashed handles this perfectly. The levels are solid, and the barriers generally prevent you from dealing with psychics glitches.

I think Colors rectified this to some extant. Slowing down and searching for red rings in 3D was pretty seamless and natural. I think that, with continued development, the Unleashed engine could handle open world levels pretty well. I guess we'll find out with the SA1 level in Generations, eh? Just my amateur opinion, I'm no expert on technology.

My concern with Generations is actually on the 2D side. How are they going to make classic stages from the "Modern" era? Take City Escape, for instance. How does that even translate into Classic mode? Do they just put the level art/concepts in 2D? Or do they integrate actual Classic elements into the level, like slopes and loops? I hope it's the latter, because that would be actually interesting. I'd like to see if they translate that level's gimmicks into classic style, maybe an Ice Cap'ish 'boarding section through a slanted street.

Also, I'm hoping you can unlock alternate music tracks ala Smash Bros Brawl. Imagine if you could choose between all the Tropical Island Zone songs when selecting Green Hill? More remixes = WIN.

 

For the modern stages remade in 2D classic mode, I hope they re-interpret some old school level gimmicks for the new-age level. Take City Escape for example. In 3D the gimmicks would be things like those hexagon platform thingies, wall-running sections, rails and posts to swing on. In 2D however it might be more appropriate to take gimmicks from 2D city levels and reimagine them for a 2D City Escape - for example, the seesaw gimmicks from Star Light Zone/Route 99, or the moving up-and-down block sections from Spring Yard.

 

The thing about playing Sonic Adventure 1's stages were that they had much better pacing and balance between going really fast and exploring a 3D world. It wasn't always just going 300 miles an hour in a straight line with the occasional reflex test to not die. The controls were much better suited to running around in a 3D world than they were to running a race track, and the design reflected that heavily. There were a lot more "rooms" and vertical space that required Sonic to stop running in a straight line and do some climbing, spindashing, or running on walls, which could still be done quickly with enough skill. There was more for Sonic to do that just boost through enemies, even though most of his stages could rightly be described as a linear point-A-to-point-B affair like the Classic games. Camera placement was also a significant conveyor of that nonlinear 3D exploration experience as well as the "look I'm going really fast" experience. It was very dynamic, as was the stage design. Hell, just look at the entirety of Sky Deck. That's dynamic. And talk about variety in gameplay, too. You had two Sky Chase segments, snowboarding, and pinball all in Sonic's arc alone. And the Adventure Fields were nice in that they added an extra dimension for you to explore Sonic's world without boring you with a bunch of busy missions and a constant behind-the-back camera placement. It expanded the world and the experience without making it feel like a chore to slog through. And the near flawless, control even in the AFs, can't be stressed enough.

This isn't to say that Unleashed wasn't fun or exhilarating, but the experience tends to be rushed, formulaic, and shallow when you're not dealing with the mandatory collecting of Medals between stages. Every stage is pretty much designed the same way: run in a straight line, go 2D and do some jumping while going forward, go back to 3D and do some jumping while going forward, press shoulder buttons or face buttons to keep going or not die, then jump off a ramp and then you win. It's all very neatly formulaic and predictable, whereas each Action stage in Adventure was unique and had some more memorable gameplay. It felt much more like a real 3D action platforming game than Unleashed ever did to me. Where Unleashed succeeds is in being a blood-pumping, exhilarating racing game, but as a result in sacrifices the nonlinear gameplay potential of 3 dimensions. It is a much more polished game than Adventure 1, but I wouldn't necessarily call it a better 3D adventure game. It feels more like a wild 3D racing game with obstacle courses. It can still be really fun and challenging, especially if the pacing is balanced out with some exploration and/or 2D platforming, but it isn't quite the same as having a whole three dimensions to experience.

EDIT: And just to cover all my bases: No, this doesn't mean I want another game where I have to fish, listen to awful rap lyrics while hunting for gems, zig-zag around in a jittery fashion along speedy paths, ride a mech, listen to really lame buttrock with the cheesiest of lyrics (... somewhat), run around slowly with a hammer and inexplicable invisibility, run around even more slowly and punch a big group of enemies to an annoyingly repetitive jazz battle theme (although the throwing was fun), fly around dropping Ring bombs, or play an awful adaptation of Sky Chase with QTEs. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, and no.

 

This might sound a bit out of place but... can anyone post again that photomanipulation of the classic sonic with green eyes and modern sonic with black eyes that was posted on this thread back when the trailer was revealed? I've looked around the thread but I cant find it.

 

And no, I'm not convinced that designing functional level routes is all that much more complicated than modeling complex organic geometry. Most (most) of what they're doing is lofting flat surfaces for the player to run on. I'm aware that level artists aren't strictly level designers, but long story short, they could make this work if they really wanted to. What Jan said, basically!

 

Only with a lot more linearity. That said, it was still the closest we've had to a 3D Sonic game that played like a classic game. It even had better physics than the 3D Sonic game released seven years later. =3

I'm still struck by how well Sonic's basic running control works in the Adventure games compared to every other 3D Sonic game in existence, Unleashed and Colors included...

Glitched to hell and gone, though. Pity. Could have been an extremely fun level, were it not for that and... THE CANNON.

DON'T YOU DARE TALK OF CASINOPOLIS AS IF IT WERE A GOOD THING.

*shudder*

The casino stage, a sewer level. Really, Sonic Team?! X_X;;

While I do enjoy the way Sonic controlled so smoothly in basic medium-speed running—very relaxing, actually—I don't think the Adventure Fields were terribly interesting in any way, shape, or form. At best they were just kind of there. Potential untapped, as it were. Some of that potentially was adequately tapped in Sonic Unleashed, but Sonic's forced jog during the town sections kind of dragged the whole thing down.

I do agree, and I'd love to see future games fine-tune the controls of Unleashed and move the design mentality closer to Sonic Adventure 1's brand of stage design (there's potential in that combination, I think). It's definitely not this time, though—Green Hill is telling enough. I wonder if maybe the obvious contrast between Classic and Modern in this game might show up in the reviews and general reception strongly enough to prompt Sonic Team to experiment with a more Adventure-1-ish Unleashed formula?

Well, we'll see, I guess, but that's a bit too speculative a topic to follow up on here...

 

Hey, it's Vegas and you didn't win 400 rings. It's the sewers for you! Be glad you're not sleeping with the fishes.

 

The tragedy is that the sewers are actually the fast way to get 400 rings.

 

Y'know, I do like the variety that Sonic has had with his 3D games. We are talking a span of 12 or so years from Sonic Adventure, and things haven't changed THAT much in that time. Colours was a great step- you could boost, but often it wasn't the answer, and boosting was more there for when you had the level layout understood more- probably why I kept getting Game Overs because I was trying to play it like Unleashed. I got the final red rings today and obtained Super Sonic, and it's so clear that constantly boosting gets you in trouble it's unreal. It really takes skill to beat the levels, whereas Unleashed was very linear, and the only places where boosting was a bad idea was during a chain of badniks over a pit or on that pipe road in Eggmanland (BTW, I had the Wii version).

I hope they continue the Sonic Colours trend. That game is simply amazing, and I went back to Adventure 2 recently to get the last 20 emblems, and the game is actually very unfair in terms of ranking, as well as with the camera angle in some spots (which was occasionally an issue with Colours- where it zoomed out TOO much making you lose sight of Sonic on 2D sections).

Honestly, it's easy to go back now and make fun of the Adventure games, but despite some minor issues, they still hold up amazingly well. I actually think that the core 3D games give you about as much freedom of paths as each other, minus Unleashed which was a bit skimpy. Adventure's series also give you freedom to go ANYWHERE, whereas Unleashed an Colours lets you mvoe around within the confines of a track, which altouh can sometimes vary in size, never really gives you 'true freedom', which is neither good nor bad, just different. Sometimes I prefer to play Colours because I can go up to the side of the ledge I'm running along and KNOW I'm not going to fall off it stupidly because there's an invisible wall there, which is definitely something the Advenutre games needed in some spots.

 

Everyone always says that, but Sonic Adventure 1 being linear has always been the last thing in my mind when I play it. *Shrugs* It sure as hell felt less linear than Unleashed did. Maybe it was a little empty and lacked some content, sure, but linear? Nah. And if you could convince me that it is, in fact, linear, I still probably wouldn't care.

Really? That's it? The cannon? I thought that was an awesome small part of the stage! And what are these ... glitches you speak of?

Would you rather the sewer stages in Castlevania 64 or Circle of the Moon, perhaps? The Casinopolis sewer if fucking tame in comparison. And that's only if you fuck up on the pinball board. And you can choose between Sonic-themed and NiGHTs theme pinball boards, and technically work up enough speed to get to the Emerald without getting the required amount of money. Why is this stage horrible again? I've never had a problem with it. And it was kinda funny to have Sonic exit into the restrooms.

It is potential untapped, but it was at least a fair proof-of-concept. For one, you could visit Tails' house and some parts of Angel Island, both of which were nice treats to fans new and old. Imagine what else you could've explored and unearthed if Sonic Adventure had a larger budget AND more development time? It's undercooked, but the recipe is right and open to additions.

They did say Generations would have hub worlds. Whether or not that means an Adventure Field type of hub world or a hub-select world is still under development I imagine.

 

When did they say that?

(Actually, that might explain the console version having more characters than the DS version—maybe we'll just run into a few characters milling about the hubs and have a chance to ask our televisions, "Hey, Knuckles, you feel like helping me save the world today? No? Too busy headbanging to bad rap? Oh, okay. Well, see ya...")

 

Well, I'm not sure if SEGA said it, but a Swedish magazine talked about Adventure fields:

Could either be a misunderstanding or a poor translation.

 

I think they're different this time however. SEGA has spoken about a new, interactive menu. That's probably what they are.

 

Speaking over the Racing stages only, since they are all that matters:

This is true to an extent, but it's only true for a certain subset of the stages which includes almost none of Shadow's and only half of Sonic's. Strictly speaking, all the levels rely pretty heavily on choke points to constrain the action so that the player has to go to certain key areas, but this is largely true of any Sonic game. So yeah, if you are going to classify the game entirely on City Escape, Pyramid Cave, and Crazy Gadget, this is a pretty fair statement. But Radical Highway has a number of branches, usually based on the traditional high road vs low road scheme. White Jungle has a lot of oddity pathing. Metal Harbor isn't entirely linear even if it is incredibly short and about 70% of the level is more or less mandatory. The last stages for each character really blow this out of the water, with Final Rush in particular splitting three separate ways right out the friggen gate and being replete with a myriad of ways to progress. All in all, I'm saying you are characterizing Sonic Adventure 2 way too much on a handful of memorable stages... perhaps most notably the first stage, which is a hazard so many people fall into when they are looking at a game in any light.

 

I just thought of something:

What if these "hub areas" are the different islands and lands from each game? You know, each island/place holding zones/lands together, and you traverse these lands (in glorious HD) to get to each zone? Westside island (I dun derped if this is wrong), Angel Island, Station Square, all the main areas where the games took place in and around.

I wouldn't mind seeing this being how you got to the zones either, as long as they were made to look good and it wasn't ass to find each zone.

 

I'd like this, but wouldn't be too sore if all we got was a hub select menu. I'm personally hoping for some of that untapped potential for exploration and nostalgic throwbacks that Adventure 1 had with its hub worlds, complete with a more dynamic camera that isn't up Sonic's ass all the time. They should start out with small areas, or "rooms", to explore that don't look or feel claustrophobic, like the different areas of Station Square, and then introduce the player to larger areas like Tails' house, the Mystic Ruins, and the outlying area of Angel Island. That coupled with a more dynamic camera and perfect 3D control would really hit home that adventure feel I've been missing. The only way they could make it better would be to bring together the kind of design and imagination from Adventure's Sonic action stages with the exhilarating speed and better speed controls of Unleashed. That would be perfect.

The Unleashed hub worlds looked nice, but they also looked too large, unbroken, and sprawling than they should have been. Not to mention that talking to people, doing missions, and stopping you from progressing without the requisite amount of macguffins seemed to be their major purpose for existing. They were there to throttle you down more than they were they to help you along or guide you to the next stage. However, the Gaia temples in Unleashed Wii were actually pretty fun! They were really nice, bite-sized puzzle rooms that had some neat potential for putting Sonic's skills to new uses. The music was really nice too.