What did you like about Shadow and Sonic 06?

Personally, I hated SONIC THE HEDGEHOG. I felt that it could have been an alright game, but I never thought it would surpass any of the previous games to begin with, having read the plot before release. Upon its release, a play of the game, and the amount of poor reviews and backlash basically confirmed my thoughts. It wasn't very good.

The game has so many different plot points which probably do make sense, if only they were to be explained a bit more (Blue Chaos Emerald Paradox can make sense). The voice acting in the game is also pretty poor too, and there are so many errors it's unreal (Why does Silver say his famous opening line in Shadow's voice? Seriously, go and watch it). Sonic and the other characters control so poorly that I racked up two game overs on Wave Ocean alone, and the characters moves are also flawed. There's no way that Sonic is meant to infinitely slide or jump into the air so that he can reach behind the scenery either, and it's inexcusable.

The game definitely isn't finished at all, and most people don't realise the extent of this truth; it looks and plays like it was stolen from the team with months until developments end. There's elements in the game which have only been half implemented, and I was shocked when the day/night system was thrown away, considering that when they E3'd the game, they basically showed it JUST for that element alone. Those collectable gems should definitely also have been the Sol Emeralds, and Super Sonic was cut from the normal game pretty late in, something which people were also looking forward to. There's a lot of sound missing from cutscenes, making them feel awkward, and all the characters look lifeless, and Sonic definitely frowns too fucking much for my liking. The loading times are horrendous too.

The only redeemable thing about the game is that it sets up the Sonic Rush and Rivals series, and explains them; Blaze and Silver are from the future, when players who only play Sonic Rush think it's another dimension (Rivals also tells us it's the future). I also forgot to mention that the music is pretty good too.

Yet, when the bad is all said and done, if I was given the game, I'd still go and play it for a while. Who knows why? I really don't. It's almost as if I want to play it and tell myself that it's a good game, that it's not repetitive and dull. Thing is, the game does have some decent qualities, which players try to master despite all the bad controls and bugginess. Maybe it's because it's Sonic, and it's quite pretty at times, and because I've played the previous games, and want to see the connections to previous entries. Either way, whatever happens now, it will always be a buggy and unfinished game forever.

 

Your statements sound reasonable and quite right but this

is ridiculous.

Sonic 06 didn't set up the Sonic Rush and Rivals series. It broke Rush's series to "another dimension" and "future" instead. It was clear that in Sonic Rush Blaze and Nega were from another dimension. But when Sonic Team was making Sonic 06 they were like "Screw Sonic Rush let's put Blaze in game cos she's cool". And Blackbones (creators of Sonic Rivals 1 & 2) expanded Nextgen's plot telling us that Nega is from future.
However I believe that Sonic Rush Adventure can be either another dimension or future so two plotlines are somehow merging. But once again it's not Sonic 06's merit because it only spoiled Sonic game universe by making this nonsense.

 

Personally, I think the story tie-in is one of the only things SONIC THE HEDGEHOG has got going for it.

It's often thought there are plot holes because the story is often misunderstood.

Sonic 2006 set up the premise (even though it was released afterward, it was in production at that time) for Sonic Rush & Sonic Rush Adventure. Sonic Rivals 1 & 2 occur after that time. Basically, it goes like this:

Sonic 2006: We see Blaze and Silver from the future, yet because of the reset time line, the events never happened, and the characters are unaware of each other from both worlds.

Sonic Rush/Adventure: Sonic and Blaze are (re)introduced, and all the good guys think that their worlds are seperate dimensions. Throughout the course of the games, Eggman and Eggman Nega seem to hide many hidden secrets about the Sol and Chaos Emeralds, and also about objects within the universe, as well as their own machines creating Chaos Control and paradoxes. Eggman Nega is humiliated because of his teamwork with Robotnik, as Super Sonic and Burning Blaze basically fuck them up twice.

Sonic Rivals/2: Eggman Nega returns masquerading as Robotnik, and Silver is also (re)introduced. NEGA reveals to Shadow that he is from the future, coming back because Robotnik has always failed at his schemes, and thus giving his ancestor Eggman Nega a bad name. Eggman Nega captures Eggman, turns him into a card (Lolz0rds), and continues to piss off the rest of the characters, at one stage releasing some Chao eating monster called Ifrit from its dimension where it was sealed. In the end, Eggman Nega is sealed within this dimension.

Because of the reset time line, it's assumed that Blaze and Silver no longer know of each other (Maybe they'll expand upon this in future). The origin of the Sol Emeralds is also yet to be explained, however, they aren't around in Sonic's time, and apart from their shape, are exactly the same as the Chaos Emeralds. Another explanation which is often over-looked is Eggman Nega's name. Now, because of the confusion, it's generally accepted that Eggman Nega is named so because he is from a parallel world, and perhaps is the NEGAtive of Robotnik. In fact, he is aware of his ancestor Dr 'EGGMAN' Robotnik, and adopts a negative colour of his clothing, and this would generally explain his name, where the 'other dimension' theory is a red-herring. Also, being a negative of Dr Robotnik, surely he would be nice? :v:

It's also interesting to note that SOLaris, SOLeanna and SOL Emeralds are all named as such, because being based around fire as the Sol Emeralds are, there may also be a connection there which is yet to be explained.

Make of that what you will, but I've done a lot of thinking, and a fair amount of research to draw up those conclusions, without becoming fanfic-sh, or assuming. It's well documented that Sonic games often don't chronologically coincide with their release dates. Examples being Sonic CD, Sonic Battle, Sonic Advance 3 and Sonic 4. Game series such as Metroid and Zelda also do similar things.

 

The above is entirely fanon. The only explanation that actually coincides with what we have as fact is that the storyline is messed up/retconned. Until something comes along giving us a proper explanation, that's what should be accepted as true (and other explanations as 'logical conclusions').

EDIT: Thought I should also mention that there's no reason to conclude that the games don't happen in chronological order unless otherwise stated (Sonic 4). Battle references Heroes directly, but no other games do this. Advance 3 came after Battle story and release wise, and CD doesn't match up to anything except 'before Adventure'. [/off topic]

EDIT Again: If you want to discuss it, PM me. Otherwise it's hardly important and I don't want to derail this topic further.

I noticed something about Shadow that I liked earlier. Compared to most of the rest of the series, there's a few few original level tropes. There's the ruined base and base-jungle crossover (Iron Jungle, Prison Island), the carnival stage is pretty bizarre and the Black Comet levels are still completely unlike any other. We rarely see series original themes now, and 06 was almost the perfect example of generic levels in Sonic games.

 

May I ask what stated above is fanon? All that has happened (and I'm sure you will agree) is that the games have been put into an order which eliminates plot holes, and makes logical and reasonable sense. Fanon would be to say "Hey, y'know what? Blaze is the guardian of the Sol Emeralds and is a loner, because she is the offspring of Knuckles the Echidna and Rouge the Bat, and decided to take Knuckle's place". I appreciate that you feel OFFICIAL verification is needed (I'd love for Sonic Team to finally come forward and just bloody prove what they've already put into place), but that could apply for anything anywhere, in any game in which information hasn't been explicitly said, but has been 'verified' anyway by a community or non official source.

An example would be to say that it's generally been accepted that Maria has NIDS syndrome, however, none of the games state this whatsoever. Is that fanon or fact? As far as I'm aware (and don't quote me on this), Black Doom is also not referred to as a "he", yet is it generally accepted that Black Doom is a male alien. If we cannot rely on facts themselves to draw to reasonable and fair conclusions, then what else can we do? The central part of this community is being able to decipher facts from information, and that's all that has happened above.

I'd also like to point out that the Rivals series references both the Rush Series and SONIC THE HEDGEHOG, in the same way that Sonic Advance 3 references Battle, which in turn references Shadow The Hedgehog, so whilst I understand what you mean, that argument is fundamentally flawed. As for Sonic CD, nothing can ever be proved 100%, but there are valid theories and evidences to support its place in the series. That however, is probably for another time.

 

I haven't beaten SOnic 06 yet so I don't know what happens in silver's story (no spoilers please), but from what I've seen so far, this makes sense to me:

Since Sonic 06 technically didn't happen meaning it's possible that blaze and silver never met, it's entirely possible that the events in sonic 06 caused blaze to come from another dimension to the current one (but in the future), then with silver she comes to the present.

Meaning with the reset that sonic 06 brings, she would have never entered our future and met silver in the first place.

With the events of sonic 06 never happening, eggman then goes for the sol emeralds, which brings blaze to the present version of our dimension. (Which explains why the sol emeralds exist in the first place, and explains why silver wasn't in sonic rush.)

 

I'm not sure how that would quite work, because now we're creating evidence to say that Blaze travelled from her dimension into the future, which isn't mentioned or referenced anywhere. Resetting the time line only affects the existence of Solaris, the Duke's experiments and the problems that arise from that. How it would or could determine the existence of another dimension, seperate Eggman Nega into the future AND another dimension (Sonic Rivals and Rush?) place Blaze in another dimension and mess Silver up can't be explained.

If someone changes something in the past, it changes the future. The change that happened was that Blaze and Silver's world was no longer apocalyptic. Whether the time line changes or not, Blaze will always be born in the same world, and the same time. The fact that Eggman Nega confirmed that he was actually from the future wasn't a retcon. Retcons generally happen when a series is being further expanded, not fleshed out normally. Given that the Rivals and Rush series were created along side each other at the time, it makes it further unlikely. If one were to play Sonic Rush/Adventure, they'll find that Sonic and his pals refer to it as another dimension, whereas the Eggmen are much more careful about their wording.

I don't think there's actually been a real retcon in the Sonic series yet, other than a change of graphical styling. :v:

 

You wanna know my theory on the Sonic 06/Sonic Rush/Sonic Rivals tie-in?

Ok, in the ending to Silver's story, Iblis is sealed inside of Blaze, and Blaze is sent to another dimension. When the timeline is reset, Blaze does NOT come back from the other dimension. That would make Sonic Rush's story true in terms of other dimensions, and Sonic Rivals' story true in terms of the future, plus explain why Blaze is a loner, because remember that if Elise cried, Iblis would be released and fuck up the world, and Blaze probably keeps herself a loner so she wouldn't risk someone she's close to dying, her crying, and Iblis wrecking her dimension. Eggman Nega is a dimension-hopper, who first terrorizes Blaze's dimension, then goes and fucks up Silver's time.

Call it bullshit if you'd like, it's just my theory.

 

It's not bullshit, any explanation is well accepted. All we have to look out for is signs of story telling, where blanks are (unintentionally) filled in.

I'll be honest, I'm stubborn about what I think on this subject, and I think I've pretty much proved all I can, and I've not created matter or filled any blanks in either, so I'm generally swayed to accept my own explanation, as pompous as that sounds. I wouldn't like to get any further off-topic here either, so I guess we'll have to wait for SEGA to confirm something in writing, which won't ever happen.

 

After Blaze was sealed in another dimension she got a waitress job at an IHOP and starting having relations with one of the cooks, an alternate version of Storm the Albatross named Smort the Ralbatoss. He eventually cheated on her with a Waffle House waitress named Kimberly, and when she found out, she totally lost it and Iblis destroyed both restaurants, leaving Blaze the queen of everything since her soul was 'already a lit with flames'.

Meanwhile, Silver in this dimension's distant future was participating in a racquetball tourney, and was caught cheating (guess how) by Eggman Nega, who was so angry at losing the semifinals that he decided all life was worthless and initiated his master plan to end all life in the future, which isn't really that big a deal because it's the future and all Silver has to do is go back in time by activating Chaos Control with himself, twice, to tell Sonic about it, since Nega is smart enough to counter Silver's mind powers.

Sonic and his entourage of forest critters, and Shadow, go fuck up Robotnik (because I refuse to call him Eggman because I'm the Sonic equivalent of a Trekkie) and Shadow uses a Chaos Mind Trick to make Dokuta Robotonikku seal any future kin in another dimension (where Blaze is queen of everything and has a giant lava monster at her command). Eggm-er, Robotnik's kids grow up in a hellish world filled with fire and put their minds together to become the Egg Rangers and get rid of Iblis once and for all, by putting Blaze under an inexplicable coma spell. They all die in the process (I.e: the resulting lava spew fries them all), but one of their children, Eggman Nega, grows up hating Blaze the queen of everything (who came out of her coma while some koalas were recutting Chaos Emeralds into Sol Emeralds) because Iblis killed his whole family before it was vanquished. Then he initiates his master plan to end all life in another dimension, and then Sonic Rush happens.

I mean, what don't you guys get, seriously, it should be pretty obvious. Just go through all the scripts and circle every 23rd letter on every 23rd page, copy them down on tracing paper, hold it up to the sun, and there you go.

 

This and this alone was the only saving grace for shadow the hedgehog (for me). I didn't play Sonic 06. Shadow sucked to bad for me to dare try.

EDIT: TJ, that story was pure awesome.

 

Ain't nothing like satire to brighten the day! :v:

 

I haven't had the pleasure of playing Sonic 06 yet because I haven't got a current gen console (Lame, I know. Blame it on college and lack of a job.), but I do still have my GameCube so I'll talk about Shadow.

I used to HATE Shadow because it was so frickin' difficult for me but I started playing it again last Fall and have come to appreciate all the alternate routes and hidden levels that wouldn't have been played with the first combo, it really extends the life and playability of the game. My absolute favorite levels have to be Digital Circuit and Mad Matrix because of the TRON influence and New Wave-y sound effects.

 

I did enjoy Shadow's level design and pick-up-and-play six-stage alternate path setup. Although some of the missions are outright terrible and a lot of the others are more annoying than fun, which kind of throws a wrench in one's enjoyment of the level design.

One thing I never understood is why it bothers to keep a checklist of every possible potential level and story combination you can do, though. I mean, there's no real point, is there?

 

My favorite thing about Sonic 06 was Kingdom Valley and the Music. I love Kingdom Valley. I thought it was a pretty original idea for a level and the music suited it very well.

My favorite thing about shadow was the "You choose which way you go" aspect. I mean if the gameplay was finished properly, and the multiple story lines developed, maybe have Sonic as the main character (perhaps with Bioware behind it) The game could have been a Sonic version of Mass Effect.

 

Shadow the Hedgehog was an awesome game in my opinion. The CGI scenes were movie quality (the in-game ones could've been better), and the "choose your path" thing was pretty neat too. I liked the music, and the levels were pretty cool. I also liked the partner thing. My brother and I used to play like that a lot. The main downside for me was the way Shadow moved. He was kinda slippery and hard to control. Other than that, great game overall.

Now, on to Sonic '06. Honestly, I don't see why everyone hates it. I just got the game yesterday and it's pretty cool. I like being able to play as Sonic, Shadow or Silver. I admit, I hated the camera controls. The stupid camera is what keeps me stuck at the Egg Cerberus boss. I always die because I can't see correctly. Now, even though I haven't finished the game, I have seen all of the cutscenes from all three stories. There are two things I don't like about this game: The camera controls, and Elise. I cannot stand Elise. Besides that, the game is pretty good.

 

The best way to manipulate the camera in 06 is to use the trigger than centers it behind your character.

 

A la Jet Set Radio, which makes it a hell of a lot easier to see where you're going when you're moving at high speeds. This is the only thing that annoys me about Unleashed; they should've kept the drift to one trigger and used the other to centre the camera.

 

Shadow wasn't bad at all, it was a bit stretched out with the multiple story-lines (trying to figure out whether he was evil, good or an android), and some of the levels just felt like I was doing the most redundant boring task stuck on repeat (like when Shadow was in the colony with Maria trying to save scientists or destroy research experiments) it was mind numbingly boring at times. Some of the levels were fun though like the last story level "The last way" oooo I loved that level :D, it wasn't as great as it could have been but it wasn't a complete waste of time.

Sonic 06 was slow loading, at times slow paced and boring. But it had a lot of story and the quality of the story was good too. I liked the three branches of storylines they tried to together with the themes of past present and future. I also liked how they gave Shadow more interactivity with his Chaos powers as he was able to use his Chaos Spear in gameplay to stun and destroy enemies. I'd have to say my favourite part out of 06 was actually the super fight, and the Kingdom Valley speed run too. The music in the final fight with Solaris along with the three hedgehogs zipping around at light speed was quite fun, it had a lot of flaws and It's not one of my most favourite Sonic titles but it gets the job done.

 

Shadow could be decently fun in some parts, if you're willing to overlook the horrible voice acting (I've said it before: par for the course with the horrible voice actors SEGA insists on using for their games nowadays), and other stupid "additions"

Sonic 06... redeeming qualities... hmmmm... You didn't -have- to buy it?