Sonic Superstars: A New 2D Sonic Game (Fall 2023)

Laura · Oct 29, 2023

Palas said:

TheOcelot said:

Bit of insight from Tee Lopes about the music for Speed Jungle Act1 (which he composed):

https://twitter.com/TeeLopes/status/1718677539424550954

"This theme was inspired by the Amazon Forest with many of its instruments imitating animal sounds, and many South American elements (pan flute, cavaquinho, Samba drums, etc) over an EDM beat and a dancy synth bassline. Prob one of my favorite works!"
Click to expand...

This one guy made a video reacting to the Superstars soundtrack and pointed out the animal sounds didn't sit right with him. He said it sounded stereotypical etc., and in a bad way. Tee Lopes actually replied to that video, saying the intention was to be as if animals -- a choir of jungle animals (think gorillas, bears, cuckoos, and other birds), he said -- were chanting, "Broadway style", and not everything should be over analyzed.

But I have to say: the animal sounds did not, in fact, sit right with me either. "Broadway style" makes it worse, actually, because the aesthetics roots of that tradition are deeply rooted in colonialism. And Tee Lopes being Portuguese -- that is, from the country that violently destryed indigenous cultures for over 300 years in Brazil and Africa -- makes it even worse to me. There are indigenous chants and instruments based on local animals' sounds that he could have studied and used, and here is the thing: there are no bears or gorillas in South America (EDIT: oh okay there is exactly one bear species in South America. They live in the Andes though). So it sounds like a catch-all "Jungle" theme, mixing up elements from all around the world, that doesn't refer to any culture or biome in particular and doesn't quite pay respects to any musical style that originated there.

If you are going to do that, fine.¹ But don't get on the Internet, bold-faced, and talk about the South American influences on the music when they do not refer to the cultures or the animals that live here. The brownie points you get are ill-gotten gains. It does sound narrow-minded and stemming from a typical colonialist mindset. It is worth overanalyzing.

¹ It's not, in fact, fine. But even if we let it slide,
Click to expand...

I think that comment from Tee Lopes is unfortunate. Just saying ah don't overanalyse . I'm not really bothered by this kind of thing to me but it seems pretty lame to me. Lol!

Palas · Oct 29, 2023

The comment is much worse than what is in the song itself. The hoo-has last for less than 10 seconds and I just rolled my eyes when I heard it. But him taking his time to say that and then posting specifically about it shedding light on his supposed South American influences to get people ho so happy, BRAZIL MENTIONED etc. and being from the country that is directly responsible for the cultural power dynamics at play was... let's stick with unfortunate.

Sky The Destroyer · Oct 29, 2023

Are we really going to go on about where a music composer is from, and then attaching the whole "colonization" thing to him and the track(s) because he was inspired by a particular place in the world, even if the inspiration was not wholly accurate?

Palas · Oct 29, 2023

Sky The Destroyer said:

Are we really going to go on about where a music composer is from, and then attaching the whole "colonization" thing to him and the track(s) because he was inspired by a particular place in the world, even if the inspiration was not wholly accurate?
Click to expand...

Yes

Kiyana · Oct 29, 2023

Palas said:

TheOcelot said:

Bit of insight from Tee Lopes about the music for Speed Jungle Act1 (which he composed):

https://twitter.com/TeeLopes/status/1718677539424550954

"This theme was inspired by the Amazon Forest with many of its instruments imitating animal sounds, and many South American elements (pan flute, cavaquinho, Samba drums, etc) over an EDM beat and a dancy synth bassline. Prob one of my favorite works!"
Click to expand...

This one guy made a video reacting to the Superstars soundtrack and pointed out the animal sounds didn't sit right with him. He said it sounded stereotypical etc., and in a bad way. Tee Lopes actually replied to that video, saying the intention was to be as if animals -- a choir of jungle animals (think gorillas, bears, cuckoos, and other birds), he said -- were chanting, "Broadway style", and not everything should be over analyzed.

But I have to say: the animal sounds did not, in fact, sit right with me either. "Broadway style" makes it worse, actually, because the aesthetics roots of that tradition are deeply rooted in colonialism. And Tee Lopes being Portuguese -- that is, from the country that violently destryed indigenous cultures for over 300 years in Brazil and Africa -- makes it even worse to me. There are indigenous chants and instruments based on local animals' sounds that he could have studied and used, and here is the thing: there are no bears or gorillas in South America (EDIT: oh okay there is exactly one bear species in South America. They live in the Andes though). So it sounds like a catch-all "Jungle" theme, mixing up elements from all around the world, that doesn't refer to any culture or biome in particular and doesn't quite pay respects to any musical style that originated there.

If you are going to do that, fine.¹ But don't get on the Internet, bold-faced, and talk about the South American influences on the music when they do not refer to the cultures or the animals that live here. The brownie points you get are ill-gotten gains. It does sound narrow-minded and stemming from a typical colonialist mindset. It is worth overanalyzing.

¹ It's not, in fact, fine. But even if we let it slide,
Click to expand...

I don't think we should let anything slide rather it be humans or animals. Especially when it comes to colonialist in Africa regarding black people, culture or whatever.

DigitalDuck · Oct 29, 2023

mister_jay said:

Yeah I couldn't disagree with you more. The bosses, especially the 'final bosses' of each story is as cheap and nasty as it gets. They're not even fun. And you can't cheese those bosses with the Avatar ability when it has a near 20 second animation between the hittable moments. In fact the cheese comes right back at you when the bosses can kill you even if you have rings. I don't understand how anyone can think that Mania's Flying Battery or Stardust Speedway bosses are more 'unfair' than Superstars' final bosses.

Buy the game, play through Trip's story and see for yourself. It's infuriating as hell and a real sour note to end the game.
Click to expand...

I've already played through Trip's story and noted that it wasn't as good as the "main" story. I've also already noted that the final bosses are not great.

Beamer the Meep · Oct 29, 2023

Kiyana said:

Palas said:

TheOcelot said:

Bit of insight from Tee Lopes about the music for Speed Jungle Act1 (which he composed):

https://twitter.com/TeeLopes/status/1718677539424550954

"This theme was inspired by the Amazon Forest with many of its instruments imitating animal sounds, and many South American elements (pan flute, cavaquinho, Samba drums, etc) over an EDM beat and a dancy synth bassline. Prob one of my favorite works!"
Click to expand...

This one guy made a video reacting to the Superstars soundtrack and pointed out the animal sounds didn't sit right with him. He said it sounded stereotypical etc., and in a bad way. Tee Lopes actually replied to that video, saying the intention was to be as if animals -- a choir of jungle animals (think gorillas, bears, cuckoos, and other birds), he said -- were chanting, "Broadway style", and not everything should be over analyzed.

But I have to say: the animal sounds did not, in fact, sit right with me either. "Broadway style" makes it worse, actually, because the aesthetics roots of that tradition are deeply rooted in colonialism. And Tee Lopes being Portuguese -- that is, from the country that violently destryed indigenous cultures for over 300 years in Brazil and Africa -- makes it even worse to me. There are indigenous chants and instruments based on local animals' sounds that he could have studied and used, and here is the thing: there are no bears or gorillas in South America (EDIT: oh okay there is exactly one bear species in South America. They live in the Andes though). So it sounds like a catch-all "Jungle" theme, mixing up elements from all around the world, that doesn't refer to any culture or biome in particular and doesn't quite pay respects to any musical style that originated there.

If you are going to do that, fine.¹ But don't get on the Internet, bold-faced, and talk about the South American influences on the music when they do not refer to the cultures or the animals that live here. The brownie points you get are ill-gotten gains. It does sound narrow-minded and stemming from a typical colonialist mindset. It is worth overanalyzing.

¹ It's not, in fact, fine. But even if we let it slide,
Click to expand...

I don't think we should let anything slide rather it be humans or animals. Especially when it comes to colonialist in Africa regarding black people, culture or whatever.
Click to expand...

Quite frankly I think getting up in arms about a widely used musical trope by drawing historical implications is ridiculous. It's like saying that using sitars and oboes for a music track invoking a desert theme or a koto for a scene in historic asia is unacceptable because it marginalizes the middle east and asia respectively. It's musical shorthand that's been established over several decades of media and helps the audience get a feel for what the artist is trying to convey. It might be stereotypical yes, but perhaps we should not read into how "moral" it is...

penBorefield · Oct 29, 2023

Are we talking about politics or...?

Kiyana · Oct 29, 2023

Beamer the Meep said:

Kiyana said:

Palas said:

TheOcelot said:

Bit of insight from Tee Lopes about the music for Speed Jungle Act1 (which he composed):

https://twitter.com/TeeLopes/status/1718677539424550954

"This theme was inspired by the Amazon Forest with many of its instruments imitating animal sounds, and many South American elements (pan flute, cavaquinho, Samba drums, etc) over an EDM beat and a dancy synth bassline. Prob one of my favorite works!"
Click to expand...

This one guy made a video reacting to the Superstars soundtrack and pointed out the animal sounds didn't sit right with him. He said it sounded stereotypical etc., and in a bad way. Tee Lopes actually replied to that video, saying the intention was to be as if animals -- a choir of jungle animals (think gorillas, bears, cuckoos, and other birds), he said -- were chanting, "Broadway style", and not everything should be over analyzed.

But I have to say: the animal sounds did not, in fact, sit right with me either. "Broadway style" makes it worse, actually, because the aesthetics roots of that tradition are deeply rooted in colonialism. And Tee Lopes being Portuguese -- that is, from the country that violently destryed indigenous cultures for over 300 years in Brazil and Africa -- makes it even worse to me. There are indigenous chants and instruments based on local animals' sounds that he could have studied and used, and here is the thing: there are no bears or gorillas in South America (EDIT: oh okay there is exactly one bear species in South America. They live in the Andes though). So it sounds like a catch-all "Jungle" theme, mixing up elements from all around the world, that doesn't refer to any culture or biome in particular and doesn't quite pay respects to any musical style that originated there.

If you are going to do that, fine.¹ But don't get on the Internet, bold-faced, and talk about the South American influences on the music when they do not refer to the cultures or the animals that live here. The brownie points you get are ill-gotten gains. It does sound narrow-minded and stemming from a typical colonialist mindset. It is worth overanalyzing.

¹ It's not, in fact, fine. But even if we let it slide,
Click to expand...

I don't think we should let anything slide rather it be humans or animals. Especially when it comes to colonialist in Africa regarding black people, culture or whatever.
Click to expand...

Quite frankly I think getting up in arms about a widely used musical trope by drawing historical implications is ridiculous. It's like saying that using sitars and oboes for a music track invoking a desert theme or a koto for a scene in historic asia is unacceptable because it marginalizes the middle east and asia respectively. It's musical shorthand that's been established over several decades of media and helps the audience get a feel for what the artist is trying to convey. It might be stereotypical yes, but perhaps we should not read into how "moral" it is...
Click to expand...

Correction I myself don't have a issue with a fictional game and the music what's in it.

Aerosol · Oct 29, 2023

I know what we're not talking about.

Whatever this was.

Palas · Oct 29, 2023

It's a bit careless to use the stereotype, but Sand Sanctuary uses what you could call stereotypical instruments and scales, but no one brings it up. And no one brings up the samba/quechua music influences on Speed Jungle Act 1 either, even though their relationship with the Amazon Rainforest ranges from non-existent to relative. That's mostly ok. Being careless is one thing, but being defensively careless -- like handwaving criticism about a potentially sensitive issue with "just don't think about it" -- is annoying to say the least.

He's not a horrible person. He just could have done better explaining himself about a 10-second segment in a ~3 hour OST, and his music would benefit from being more careful.

KaiGCS · Oct 29, 2023

I thought it was a clever homage to this.

Aerosol · Oct 29, 2023

No, it's not an homage, it's just a lazy trope. I don't trust some of you to continue this discussion without it getting nasty so can we not and say we did?

Palas · Oct 29, 2023

Okay but I'll keep talking about the song, on a positive note though:

I wasn't the biggest fan when it was revealed, but it grew on me while pkaying the game. The same happened to the intro of Press Factory Act 1

The Joebro64 · Oct 29, 2023

I like Sonic Superstars

Laura · Oct 29, 2023

The Joebro64 said:

I like Sonic Superstars
Click to expand...

I'm liking it at the moment too! Strangely infectious game. Speaking of Speed Jungle, I got Sonic, Tails and Amy to sub 1 minute times on Time Attack. Spent an hour grinding the stage. Very enjoyable!

Plorpus · Oct 29, 2023

The song is good and fine, actually

Aerosol · Oct 30, 2023

Honestly I find it a bit boring.

E-122-Psi · Oct 30, 2023

Grinding for medals has become strangely addictive for me. I've started playing online Battle to get more medals and buy more bot skins, even if lobbies generally tend to have one other player in them.

Sonic5993 · Oct 30, 2023

Here's a topic; why has Knuckles become the worst character to play as in both recent games? I feel like we entered the twilight zone, wasn't he the best? Why would they do this to my boy.

Sonic Superstars: A New 2D Sonic Game (Fall 2023)

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