Sonic Superstars: A New 2D Sonic Game (Fall 2023)

When we say pixel art, does that rule-out vector graphics? I understand if they wanted to stick with high-resolution scalable graphics. In that case, I’d love to see something like what Rayman Origins did, and that game also used a mix of 2D and 3D assets.

 

I don’t think vector art is considered the same as pixel art, I’d love a drawn Sonic game too, i think Iizuka mentioned they considered something like that too.

 

Well, there one way to make 3D charming just as 2D: Making it cel-shading.

 

2D animation-style is a lot more than the shading. 3D squash and stretch and other animation principles are a lot of work to pull-off well.

 

Sonic Mania still looks good six years after release. Sonic Superstars looks dated now.

We really should start collecting these Takashi Iizuka quotes. IIRC there was a "we're not putting a 2D Sonic game on XBLA" before Sonic 4, and "we're not going back to Sonic's classic design" before Sonic Generations.


Everything is great and nothing will happen until it isn't and it does.

 

Calling developers lazy because they didn't pick the art style you want is a shit take. You not liking something is not someone else's moral failure.

 

I think this is just a snapshot of his current thoughts.

Personally, vector/high-resolution illustrated art DOES make more sense to me than pure pixel art moving forward, if they wanted to try that along with 2.5D.

 

The developers ARE lazy it's there for all to see. Now I'm not automatically against 3d - they could've created something truly beautiful with it, but they didn't. It's not really about the art styles, it's how they've implemented them: Look at the background of Pinball Carnival and compare it to the sheer effort that went into the backgrounds of Carnival Night and Collision Chaos. In fact, compare the background of any Superstars level we've seen to its Genesis equivalent and it's a shoddy pile of wank compared to what came before.

 

Still not a polite way of saying it.

 

I SHOULDN'T bother, but I find your rhetoric genuinely disgusting and insulting to every single developer in existence.

If you don't like how Superstars look, then say that in no uncertain terms. But again, you not liking something is not someone else's moral failure.

Am I supposed to think this is lazy?



Press Factory has a lot of things in the background. Did it pass the laziness test?

"Effort" isn't when there's a lot of things in the background specifically.

The backgrounds in the Genesis games are single images that infinitely wrap around, while everything in Superstars had to be individually placed there, same with the level design. So clearly, Superstars took more effort.

Can you imagine if I said that with a straight face? That's not how making games work.

 

For what it's worth, and even though I'm not a fan of most stage visuals so far, I prefer Superstars' backgrounds to lean more into the cleaner side. Some people compared the looks of the game to Sonic 2 HD from the early material we got, and honestly I never saw it and I would hate it if I did. Sonic 2 HD is way too busy, cluttered and chaotic for you to understand what's actually going on at any given time.

If I can't immediately distinguish which elements on the screen are to be interacted with and which ones aren't without even more UI clutter, like those horrible signs that indicate danger or bottomless pits, I honestly don't want it.

 

Sure, but I meant more like a simpe cel-shading like Jet Set Radio could work. But yes, the point still stands, I guess.

I just think Sonic looks good on cel-shading. I know we're talking about 2.5.D game, but...

 

Yeah, that looks empty in some shots...

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but it looks absolutely fine in others.

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If you need to blame someone for being lazy, I'd say the issue is more with the publishers (e.g. Sega) being cheap rather than the developers not putting in effort. What people often forget is that even if developers have the resources on paper to do what you want, that does not mean the higher-ups gave them the time or the budget.

Most developers strive to do the best job they can, but even when supplied with everything they could ever use, that's not always enough if they're being constrained by other factors.

I'm not saying you can't criticize how the game is shaping up, but I think people need to be mindful that it's not because of a lack of effort on the devs' part.

 

I love the work the team did here, it really reminds me rhe aesthetic of Carnival Night. I always wanted something of this kind in 3D. This zone looks way better than I was expecing.

 

Hell, I might do that for funsies. Would it be worth making a new thread over, or...?

 

Where are people getting the idea that Iizuka dislikes pixel art now? What he said makes sense if you think about it from a game developer's perspective. Pixel art is a lot harder to do well than 3D art is. And the truth is, most people still look down on pixel art based games as "cheap and lazy", which isn't good for sales. Look at all the people who still dismiss Mania as a nostalgic cash grab because of its visual appearance.

I still would have preferred they go with hand-drawn 2D art like they wanted to at one point, but it's not a matter of "pixel art is bad". It's a matter of "which of these is sustainable and appeals to a wide audience".

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If we're talking about the backgrounds, I'm not a fan of the intense depth of field. That really should be toned down. It assists in readability, yes, but it takes all of the detail out of the backgrounds and just makes it a blurry mess. There's a middle ground to be had there.

I also think the colors in Pinball Carnival look a little muted and muddy? Does anyone else see that? It's as if they mixed a small amount of brown paint into everything, and the entire level is darker than it feels like it should be.

 

I guarantee every single actual developer and artist who worked on this game put in exactly the amount of effort they were capable of within the time and resources allotted. Whether you like the result is up to you, but to chalk whatever you happen to not like to this idiom of "laziness" (already an ill-defined concept fraught with politics and bad philosophy) is anti-art and anti-worker. It's simply not a good word to use even when stuff is shit, because most people who need to work actual jobs to live can't afford to be "lazy".

Personally, I think the visuals are "okay". They're colorful, they're detailed in plenty of places, they are admittedly a bit plain in spots, but there's nothing particularly objectionable here. Not only do I not need Sonic to have top-tier fidelity, I also do not want it to, since I don't think it fits the series tonally. I think it's a shame they haven't gone for a more stylized art style, but I'm not going to take it out on this game, which looks fine. If anything, my issue is more that most of the stages don't have super-interesting themes (granted, none of them reused), and the aesthetics would likely have followed that.

 

I don't entirely see how this relates to Superstars tbh. Pixel art is just ONE style of 2D art, and I always imagined that if we got a new 2D Sonic after 3K it would be hand drawn or 2.5D. Mania was a surprise and it looks PHENOMENAL, but I think everyone expected if 2D Sonic came back it would be something like Fan Remix. This is kinda the direction I imagined for classic Sonic, and I like it! Before Mania, I thought most people imagined a similar direction, should SEGA ever decide to bring back the classic formula. Also, like Shaddy said, I'm kinda just happy if the game looks "good enough". Style should come over fidelity imo, a 3D game can still become dated a few years down the line if it doesn't lean into its own style.

That being said, I find these kinds of opinions from developers to be kind of tone deaf. Of course some gamers think pixel art is "lazy" when big corporations are pinching pennies on games with either a pretty standard or even a shallow amount of content despite saving tons of money developing them. Of course less people are buying your pixel art games when Mania is given only a tiny fraction of the marketing and development resources that Frontiers was and is still *treated* like a budget title so they can save a buck. I definitely think the indie craze of pixel art games may die down over the next few years, but pixel artstyles can still be wildly appealing. People like when a game really leans into its style and looks like a ton of love was put into it. I think moving away from pixel art is the right choice for Classic Sonic specifically, but pixel art itself can be so much more than "ah, this is how it used to be, the good ol days!"

But maybe I'm biased from spending so much time playing Celeste, a pixel art game that actually leans into its own style and isn't just nostalgia bait like most big companies do, and is heavily dominated by a teenage fanbase, with a modded community that is heavily dominated by teenagers despite apparently not appealing to them.

 

Alright fine this kinda looks like the Harmony art. Still needs more contrast and could be busier/more colorful in the background still but this is clearly more due to typical Sega stinginess and especially the fact that the game needs to be done in like a month and a half.

 

I mean, disregarding the simple reality that circumstances change, Iizuka's a producer first and a hype man second. Part of his job is selling us on whatever's most current, so "hey look at these things we can do in 3D that we couldn't do all that effectively in 2D!" really shouldn't raise any eyebrows. Pixel art will never truly die off, and I'll never turn my nose up at another game that looks as gorgeous as Mania did, but I'm liking a lot of what we're seeing here, too. Character animations are *really* nice with great amounts of stylisation, and I'm liking the more out-there stuff like the voxel models that are only going to show up in a single zone! How can you call something like that lazy (this is rhetorical and not necessarily directed at the quoted user)? They really didn't need to do that.