Sonic Superstars: A New 2D Sonic Game (Fall 2023)

Classic Sonic has a different model in this game than previous titles, Classic Tails and Eggman too. They’re somewhat similar to the old models but the faces especially are different, also Classic Sonic’s run now has a proper wheel-o-feet animation instead of the jog with the overlay.

idk what they did with the jump ball in this game but damn it looks perfect

 

... a crossdresser?

and the giant death star type shop had a giant moustache glued on it. and when he destroyed landscapes it was to build cool machinery in. and the animals got kidnapped to be the batteries of childish toy robots. and when he grins and laughs it's with a giant cartoonish miyazaki smile.
please take a look back and actually look at what's there

 

A death star that has your face on it is still a death star. It just makes you look evil AND cartoonishly narcissistic. Same with the "childish toy robots" more specifically being modified animal designs, like he's forcibly remaking nature in his own image using nature itself. Silly but evil. Really don't know why it can't be both with this character.

 

I think what made Classic Sonic charismatic in first day was the fact he was cute. I think the "problem" here it's just Sonic looks better in 2D than 3D. And I do like Superstars renders.

But just to be clear, I too think 90's Classic Sonic is my favorite, because he was both cute AND bad-ass, but I don't think Superstars ins't exactly doing anything wrong making him cute. But I get what some people mean, I think I just don't mind and still fits anyway.

Kinda off, but not that much: Modern Sonic is also bad-ass and cute.

 

He was BOTH, if you can't plainly see that already then no amount of evidence is going to change your mind.

 

After thinking about it, I think I'd say Eggman's character is much more buffonish in Sonic 1 and 2 than menacing. And I think Sonic 3K started presenting him slightly more menacingly. Makes sense since Sonic 3K is in many ways a precursor to the tone which was established in Adventure.

However, I think the Classic Sonic games always presented Eggman as threatening in the aesthetic and sound design. In many ways there's a dichotomy in his character which is hard to pin down. But I think if I had to be clear that's how I'd describe it.

Take the Death Egg. It is a machine which can cause a lot of damage. But in Sonic 2 I think it's not really much more than just a parody on Star Wars and something which is just a silly gag. You don't really see it much and it's power is never really presented. I always interpreted it as something that's so silly it's funny and hard to take seriously. A dangerous Death Star...with Eggman's face on it.

But yeah in Sonic 3 they definitely took it more seriously and I think that's because Sonic 3 in general went much further in presenting Eggman's character as dangerous. They actually show the power of the Death Egg and have that famous chase scene in Lava Reef. Which I think is probably the most menacing scene in the history of Classic Sonic.

I've always interpreted his laughing as goofy and taking away from the more serious implications of the boss battles, which is why they removed it from Adventure onwards.

I do agree though that the aesthetic of his environments in the Classic Sonic games does go a long way into making him seem threatening. Which ties into the dichotomy I read into his character.

And I know what you mean on music conveying character. I think the characters in SA2 are largely told through music. Especially Knuckles. I think an important point here is that the JP theme for Eggman is very buffonish. Pretty much how I think he's always been presented as a character in the Classic Sonic games. The soundtracks for the Classic Sonic games has always been very melodic and character focused to me. So I think it fits, especially in Sonic CD JP where they went really strongly in that direction. Whereas the US boss theme is obviously horrifying and the general soundtrack is much more atmospheric. I think it's a good example of the dual nature of Eggman. In that the US boss theme is conveying the cold, mechanical and threatening atmosphere of the boss arena as much as it is Eggman. Eggman's boss themes have always been threatening in Sonic 1 and 2 but I still think it's an interesting observation.

 

The Eggman discussion is one of framing. If you type out what Classic Eggman does in a decontextualized forum post, then yeah, he does sound like a super evil villain. But the games didn't often focus on his crimes. The Death Egg is basically just a cool setpiece for Sonic to travel through, it's not like we actually see it blow anything up. When you release Cucky from an Eggrobo, he doesn't look at the screen and talk to you about the mental trauma being trapped in a robot has inflicted on him. The lack of serious consequences from his villainy generally keeps him grounded in comedy, though I'll agree that Sonic 3 does push it with stuff like him lighting Angel Island on fire.

Compare this to something like SATAM, where Eggman actually has ruined the lives of the entire cast, and is given a more serious redesign to boot.

Edit: Ninja'd by Laura, damn. This is what happens when I take bathroom breaks inbetween typing up a post

 

He's basically as evil as he can be within the confines of a children's video game. I suppose you have to connect some dots for yourself though.

 

Eggman comes a long way from the Ball and Chain boss to the finalized Death Egg.

It does blow up Lava Reef Zone Act 2 when you are in the cave, but yeah that's about it. Besides that I always found the scale of the thing insane. The background art in Death Egg Zone (S3K) implies that the central tower is hundreds of yards in the distance, which I thought was super cool as a kid.

I don't know how it was for others, but I experienced the classic era as a kid as kind of a mixture of all the different Sonic media back then. Somehow it made sense in my juvenile mind that the games, the comic, and the cartoons all existed together in the same universe. That definitely influences my perception of how I thought the classic era was like.

 

I always saw classic Eggman as basically a giant super genius manchild that not only builds his robots/mechanical environments for his own amusement, but also has fun with destroying the environment/inhabitants around him to build his new toys. He's like a spoiled kid that's just completely run amuck but with real power to his abilities, which makes his shenanigans look cute from the outside but gets sinister real quick if you get in his way.

...I needed to throw my two cents in on this at some point.

 

The Classic games are so vague with their interpretations of things that I honestly wouldn't say you can definitively say it was either "cute" or "edgy." Like how how edgy were the Classic games when the general consensus seems to be that Sonic Adventure is when things got "edgier"? Its really hard to quantify

Now granted, they absolutely do market Classic Sonic in a much more "cute" direction, but that's only to differentiate that sub-brand from the Modern branch. Both brands are accomplishing different things and I think that's fine.

Are you going to actually address the subject or just strawman people that don't agree with you with bad faith arguments?

 

I love cute Sonic. I think the colors are a bit saturated and that the environments in this game look too soft, but I feel that that's not something I would necessarily blame on cuteness. Even in the less-cute games I think this series has had questionable art direction in 3D.

At some points I wonder if it's a gimmick.

 

I'd place a bet that the Gamescom footage is the same as the reveal period build. Sonic Mania 1:1 act completion music alone is a sign that things are still WIP and sound is probably a late put-together.

 

it seems implied that the Classic timeline is moving again so it makes sense to start all of the characters with very on-model, simplified versions of themselves so that there's something to evolve in each of the next 2.5d games!!

And a Tyson Hesse DLC for all of the characters is not out of the question although i'm not anticipating it per se; but it makes sense to have these official SEGA models to start out with to keep the animation series special. Speaking of which, it is possble now that one they have been working on for Superstars might be revealed soon?? The most recent one i think was for the racing game, so it would be a very welcome return if so!!

 

Me too. I don't like the Superstars art because it feels bland, low effort, overly simplistic, with a touch of nostalgia pandering. The more cutesy direction is also something that isn't really to my taste, and it feels like a bit of revisionism to take this new style and call it "classic Sonic", but it's completely possible for art to be cute and also good. Gotta mention Sonic and the Fallen Star again.

Slap this bad boy on a box and I'd buy it in a second


I think I'm gonna tap out of the Superstars discussion though. I don't really like being negative, I'd rather be positive about something.

 

Maybe I just have low standards, but I really can't fault the art direction in Superstars. For me, it's close enough to what I want, and it's come closer than any game with 3D artwork thus far. Just because it's not super ambitious or clever doesn't mean it's bad or low-effort.

 

I agree. I think Superstars looks good for what it is.

 

It's funny to me. I always thought Generations was way too hard on the cute scale; resenting slightly the fake impression it created of how Sonic was some cute little cherub.

With that in mind, I felt happy that Superstars appeared to have dialed it back a bit. Still definitely on the cute side, but also definitely an improvement (imo) over the little fake chubster we saw in Generations. But I think people here are seeing that the other way around a bit?

Anyway, the cuteness in Superstars isn't too terrible from my eyes. I would very happily have it removed further, but eh. The cover art in particular is pretty close to what I'd like, but yeah that's only one piece of art.

I don't mind Amy's cuteness at all; in fact I gotta say I like it. It might be a bit of a cliche and <wokey statements here>, but Amy as the little cutie works way better than Amy the clingy psycho girl. It's not hard to roll more independent, positive characteristics into the cutey character type anyway.

Tails' cuteness has always bothered me; I've never really liked the happy 10 year old boy vibe he appears with all the time now. But I think I had always been forming a wrong impression of Tails as a kid anyway. That was the great part about silent characters; they could be what you wanted them to be.


Can we go back to bitching about the music now? That's really crapping on the whole game for me.
A few bits are ok, but the bosses, and that Sonic 1 Bonus Stage, just fill me with a feeling of a team that places fugly nostalgia hacks above actual care for/pride in what they're producing.

 

The act 1 boss music is ok, could be better. The act 2 boss music is ass, sounds like a unused Sonic 4 track they wanted to use for who knows why.

 

I didn’t say he wasn’t cartoonish or buffoonish, but he was still pretty evil.
Someone else mentioned the Joker, and I think that’s a good comparison in some ways.