Sonic, as a protagonist, doesn't need to be changed, either in a myth type of storytelling or a story type of storytelling. Him being a free spirit that pulls others along and stays the same throughout all the events is fine and well, that's the core of his self. At best, I feel we only needed to know how Sonic & Eggman's rivalry began, as a starting point for the franchise. There's no need for deep or complex backstories, what we have for Tails, Amy, Knux, etc, serves awfully well enough for the franchise. Shadow, for example, was a fine depiction of complicating a character background for the sake of an entire global-scaled plot arc. ST giving us glimpses of Eggman's motivations and inspirations for his megalomania and journey of world conquest might do fine too. The whole "Nature VS Technology" thematic of the first games got a bit lost over time, so it could be good to stick to it all the way. There's been tons of lore exploration over the years, with many eldritch-like creatures thrown into the mix, but the world itself is stale. There's no need to complicate things, just show tids and bits of how the world works, how humans and anthros co-habit and interact, etc. Excuse me the question... Was this directed at me? If yes, I just mentioned above, Sonic as he is is fine and dandy, let him be, it's the core of the franchise ^^"
I wasn't directing it at anyone specific, but I wasn't disagreeing with you. I think you can loosen up enough to imply that he had a life outside of everything, you just have to be careful with what and how much. Weirdly, though I think they botched a lot of parts of it, Archie had the best personal/familial backstory for Sonic, in that his parents...are mostly just normal and boring. Like they love him, but it's not some big scary thing that he goes out on crazy adventures all his life. He's fine! Jules is literally the only father that Penders created whom I like. I don't want Sonic's parents to be relevant figures in the main series, but the best possible backstory for Sonic is that he's just some guy who was fast. He wants to see the world, and helps people along the way. I think the issue with the "nature vs. technology" theme is that it's increasingly inaccurate to portray nature and technology as diametrically-opposed. Sonic and friends frequently use and sometimes are technology. I love Sonic CD because the good futures feature technology implemented in such a way that it enhances and integrates with nature. Ehh I don't know if I'd go that far. Frankly, Tailstube confirming that human and animal-people cultures do actually exist on the same planet and just don't have a lot of overlap is fine. If you have to question why that is for reasons other than aesthetics, that can be a slippery slope into stories about furry racism, and I am happy to leave that in the past. Sonic should be more like Bojack, where half the population can be animal people and nobody even bats an eye or questions it because that's how it's always been.
I don't find it that bad, personally. The whole thought structure changes though. It doesn't change much really that Sonic 1 (Mega Drive) is the first time Sonic and Eggman is 100% ure to be the first time they meet, ever -- but then it follows there is a definite, concrete, storified answer to questions that were before left not even unanswered, but mostly unquestioned too. "Does Sonic 1 (Master System) come before or after Sonic 1 (Mega Drive)" is the kind of question that is there to be asked, not to be answered. Many headcanons and theories sort of coexist, even if not peacefully, and that structure is gone once there's someone with the authority to change things to fit a "true" timeline. I mean it doesn't HURT anyone, and the differences are all very small, but the change to the mindset you need to accommodate not the details, but the train of thought, can be big. Which, of course, can be considered just a personal problem of those who don't like it. Ultimately, it is.
I guess I can see that. If you dedicate yourself to having one impression of a work in mind, arbitrary or otherwise, and then something new comes out and tells you that impression is wrong, then even if it's totally within their right to do that, you're gonna feel burned regardless of the material contained therein. That's probably part of the reason I hate the FLCL sequels (though I'm pretty sure those actually are legitimately bad lol). It's just...it's Sonic. If I came here for consistency, manufactured or otherwise, I would've been out long ago. Sonic treats it's continuity like a bag of dead spiders, so why would I get upset at one more incredibly mild example of that. I like whenever the series tries weird new things, and I'm only really opposed to them if they either conflict with fundamental elements or themes of the characters and world, or they're just miserable to endure in general. If Origins really had made drastic, sweeping changes to the canon, the fact that they made changes would be a lot less important than what those changes are or their implications, far outside supplementary paratextual material. I can make those critiques about Shadow, or about various parts of Archie, or about fuckin' Doctor Who. A load of fun little animations that mostly serve to get us back to exactly the point everyone was already at, and it becomes difficult to take too seriously.
Just going to clarify two misinterpretations that I see often here about the Origins cutscenes. 1. The Sonic 1 opening is not implying this is the first time Sonic and Eggman have fought. Sonic saves a Flicky and that Flicky points in Eggman's direction. Nothing about this scene implies Sonic doesn't know who Eggman is, I don't know how that became a read on it. This scene is just Sonic learning about his latest scheme. 2.). Sonic does not intentionally save Tails in in the Sonic 2 opening. He is just running across the island at such speed and purpose that he bowls over the two bullies. This is not implying that Tails does not know who Sonic is at this point. It's just the moment that he decided to try and keep up with him.
I believe it was brought up in one of the Bumblekasts that SEGA had decided that was their first encounter, hence why it comes up regarding that cutscene. I feel like Tails would've been caught up in that as well if such were the case, since he was between the two, one pulling on his tails and the other taunting him, when Sonic bowls them over. Plus, Sonic Prime implying it was deliberate since Sonic notes the bullies and 'ran by' so they 'lost interest'. I mean, you're the one who worked on them so I'll accept that's the intent, it just doesn't look the part and Sonic Prime is muddying waters again.
I am on bended knee begging you to not ever pay attention to what Prime says, lore-wise. Tails not being caught up in the whirlwind is just coincidental staging. But it was a specific request from ST to not have Sonic saving Tails in the scene. Regarding S1 being Sonic and Eggman's first encounter I believe that's just regarding the chronicled games. But even then, until it's put in writing officially and presented as such nothing is set in stone.
I know, you've mentioned multiple times. I already ignore Sonic Prime (and the IDW comics) anyway, I don't consider them canonical to the games. The problem is it's not me that you have to worry about: how many people have seen that scene and its implication Sonic deliberately got involved, and now believe what I'm noting from it? Especially with the quote floating around that Sonic Prime is canon to the games, and the constant mention about 'uniting the brand'. That's fair, though I still would have used the Tails finding the Tornado as a basis personally, since it can be used to set up his character of enjoying technology, which does factor into things a lot more.
Oh, I know. But I can't exactly shout it from the rooftops, so at least here I hope it can remove one element of friction.
Unfortunately, there'll always be people who prefer to believe what suits them better rather than the word of people involved in the stories...
You're putting 2 and 2 together and getting 5. That tidbit didn't make it into any publicly available official material. But if we were to treat it as canonical (I think it's neat and should be!), the Sonic 2 manual story never states one way or the other what Tails is wearing when Sonic first arrives on West Side Island, so there's no contradiction. Tails simply starting imitating Sonic's fashion choices sometime after first noticing him on the island and sometime before Emerald Hill Zone Act 1. Tails being a Sonic fan before he arrived on West Side Island clearly isn't what anyone intended.
Oh, now that's interesting. I'm happy that they went out of their way and asked for this scene to not deviate too much from the original manual story. Granted, it's hard to tell if Sonic is saving Tails on purpose or not going by the cutscene alone, but it is still nice to know
What, do we really need the games to literally spell out with text that Sonic stopped ignoring Tails and became friends with him? Isn't the fact they show show them as friends working together enough? Though if you really need written proof, it's stated in multiple manuals that Tails is indeed Sonic's friend and sidekick.
So then it's weird to present it as something he grew from, as I said before. Sounds to me like he basically would've been accepting from the start either way.
I tend to agree that Sonic wouldn't have "grown" from it. As many have said already, Sonic's character traits are static. Sonic Team, (and I suppose in a more specific sense Naoto Oshima) have an affinity for static characters that are a little mischievous but strive to help others. You can see this in Sonic, Nights, Balan, it's a regular thing. The way it seems to be intended both from the original manual and from the cutscene is that Sonic raced by and coincidentally saved Tails, and didn't mind that Tails followed him so long as he could keep up. Sonic is portrayed as a force of nature and of good, he values freedom of choice and will fight against those who take that freedom away like Eggman does. At the same time he doesn't deny Eggman the freedom to choose to be evil. If Tails chose to follow Sonic, who is Sonic to deny him that choice or be put off by it? It's not in his nature to do so.
Sonic didn't save Tails in the original manual, Sonic just noticed he'd begun getting followed: Tails, as far as the manual states, was not being bullied at that point in time, he just found Sonic cool and wanted to be more like him, so started tailing (heh) him to learn, then Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (Mega Drive) actually kicked off. If it wasn't for the follow-up, where Tails starts following Sonic and Sonic immediately winks and encourages him, and Tails learning to fly there and then, the Sonic Origins cutscene could have honestly slot in as a precursor, so Sonic Origins cutscene > Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (Mega Drive) Japanese Manual > Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (Mega Drive). But because they immediately start interacting positively, rather than Sonic ignoring Tails and Tails not immediately hiding when Sonic turned to spot him, it doesn't quite work.
From the BumbleKast today: 5:18 - So I have heard that Sonic Origins ignores the sonic game manual and makes it to where Eggman and Sonic’s first meet up canonically happens in Sonic 1? If accurate what are your guy’s thoughts on this? I personally think it robs us of a cool origin story that could have been told in future media like the games or the comics. I know it just easier for Sega to say “Uh yeah they met in the first game” to avoid the hassle crafting a new story but I along with others have always wanted that story. Besides if they just laid the foundation for the story, we all know Ian could do an amazing job fleshing it out. (...) It was specified by Sega that yeah, Sonic 1 is the beginning of everything. And I said some manual material says there were previous adventures, and the response was 'not anymore'. This is the new foundation that we're building from, so here it is. (...) I also think the way things are presented in Origins is open-ended enough that we could conceivably walk back on that, but that's not the intention at the moment.
Again with the ambiguity... It leaves things ever open to argument between different factions... If SEGA wants to work out the whole continuity of the franchise, they gotta be firm, no doubts.
It reads to me that they are being firm, but Ian is personally evaluating that anything can be walked back at any time. As has been made clear over the last year or so with these details. Today's canon is next anniversary's retcon these days.
Well, that's what irks me about all this. I know no story's absolute, but flipping things at the drop of a hat sure doesn't help the case.
