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The Sonic the Hedgehog Continuity Thread of Love and Timelines

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by dredd, Jul 6, 2020.

  1. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member

    I'm glad it is canon, even if it is one of the worst of the entire franchise and even if there's nothing really important in its plot. Simply because it made no sense to make it non canon, it was just arbitrary.

    But GOD this back-and-forth drives me crazy.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2023
  2. Levi Church

    Levi Church

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    Not sure if this Bumblekast is on YouTube yet or not but I remember Flynn saying specifically G Sonic is not canon.
     
  3. Pengi

    Pengi

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    He said he couldn't remember whether it made the cut or not.
     
  4. Starduster

    Starduster

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    Honestly I think Archie does have a lot to do with why this kind of desire for as much as possible to be canon exists, because Ian's run on the book (particularly pre-reboot) genuinely pulled a lot of characters out of obscurity and gave them new life for the sake of using what was already there rather than just invoking memberberries (not that I think IDW or Mania have done this, in fact I think Scrapnik Island bringing back Mecha Sonic and recontextualising his existence is exactly the former, but it has happened elsewhere in the franchise). Mighty, Ray and the Hooligans pretty much got their defining personality traits from that old Archie run, and Ian did wonderful things with the likes of Battle Bird Armada, making the Grand Battle Kukku this brilliantly glorious bastard (something that admittedly is more associated with a moment in the post-reboot story, Eggman's Dozen). Ultimately, I think people want more of that and the reason they go bananas over offhand references canonising things is because they think that means those things are on the table again. I think this too tbh, but SEGA's still been pretty safe with it all up to now since 2018, keeping the Classic/Modern divide to prevent the existence of characters like Mighty and Ray in the main setting, even if it's not an in-universe divide anymore.
     
  5. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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  6. Gestalt

    Gestalt

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    Gee, look at him, the lazy bum.
     
  7. shilz

    shilz

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    Probably meant to be a generic frog (unless associated text somehow says otherwise) because sometimes we have other frogs and today we can't decide whether or not to distinguish Froggy by giving him back Chaos' tail.
     
  8. Starduster

    Starduster

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    Nah this absolutely fits with the running gag of Big making cameos in all of Karasuno's SonicPict artworks. I imagine they've gone with Froggy because his more realistic design gels more easily into the classic world than Big's modern style design would, and apparently they just didn't want to design a classic Big.
     
  9. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    18:00 - (...) Do the unique locations from Sonic Mania (Studiopolis, Press Garden, Mirage Saloon and Titantic Monarch) take place in any pre-established locations in the Sonic universe? I ask this, because the game seems to strongly imply that both Studiopolis and Mirage Saloon are on West-side island due to them visibly being connected in their level transitions to Chemical Plant and Oil Ocean respectively. This is especially clear in the Mirage Saloon to Oil Ocean transition, as Oil Ocean is right there on the very same landmass.

    [Ian kind of thinks the same, but he's not sure because of the Phantom Ruby so we still don't know what is real and what is fake in Mania]
     
  10. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    33:15 - Is Sonic 2's Hidden Palace canon? Could there be a third Hidden Palace in South Island? Does S3's Hidden Palace exist in modern continuity?

    [Probably yes / maybe / yes]


    1:12:25 - In #58,Blaze says her Sol gems can only take her between her world & Sonics. Did Sega tell you this,or did you put this forward? I find it odd since the Chaos Emeralds dont have this limitation

    Yeah, that's a Sega thing.


    [Special stages are non canon at the moment]


    1:48:18 - are inhibitor rings actual canon? only used in 06

    I think that's actually kind of up for debate, but I would prefer that they stay canon.



     
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  11. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    7:06 - So, apparently Sonic Mania takes place at some point on Angel Island during the beginning of Sonic Mania’s Encore Mode? If that’s the case, maybe you can make some sense of some things. At what point does it pick up again? Does Adventures happen before Mighty/Ray get captured? Does the bonus episode with the snow, Amy, and Metal Sonic also happen during this time, and if so, how much time went by for it to start snowing, unless that simply took place in a snowy area? And how does Metal Sonic get stuck on Little Planet again after Mania Adventures in time for his rescue in Encore Mode? Or is this all still being worked out?


    - All generally being worked out, although I think it's safe to assume that a fair amount of time has passed if it can snow in a tropical region. I think it's implied that a time had passed, by the winter episode. I don't know for sure which path is considered the most canon (Encore Mode or Mania Adventures), because they both start with Sonic returning from Forces... and when does Metal Sonic get stuck on Little Planet again? Well, when we make the clera bridging event between Classic and Modern, which is never going to happen, so don't worry about it.


    26:27 - Given that Frontiers has started to establish that all past games are now important to the lore, that got me thinking about how some of the OLDEST titles in the franchise fit into the Sonic timeline such as Tails' Adventure. In that game, long before Tails met Sonic, he had to cross swords, or rather bombs, with the Battle Kukku Empire, who were ravaging Cocoa Island in search of the Chaos Emeralds to conquer the world. Through Tails' ingenuity and a bit of luck, Tails manages to drive off the belligerent birds and even defeats his new rival, Speedy the Hummingbird. (Side Note: It's never explained what kind of bird he is but a hummingbird just makes the most sense) With this context in mind, my question is this: What do you think happened to the Battle Kukku Empire afterwards and how would you reintroduce them into Modern Sonic's world if given the chance?

    - Their species is right there in the name, they're all Kukkus. (...) When thinking of these older games, let me just kind of put this asterisk on there: be prepared for some revisionary storytelling with some of them. I'll leave it at that.

     
  12. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    I'll have to ask him for the next Bumblekast: "Why?"

    Because honestly at this point, they seem like they're doing it because they can, not because they need to.
     
  13. RDNexus

    RDNexus

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    They could simply answer "Why not?" and leave it at that.
    If they feel the need to revise stuff to work a bit better, let it be.
    It's been noted here that without a few liberties your grand desire of seeing ALL games in ONE single continuity is near impossible.
     
  14. Shaddy the guy

    Shaddy the guy

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    What does "need to" mean? They've changed some minor things here and there, and even if you don't like it, it's not difficult to see why they'd do it: having a modern, more-unified directory for what things did and didn't happen and how is convenient. It's not an attack on what came before or anyone who preferred it, and what they've done so far has been pretty subtle and better reflects the modern idiom those stories are supposed to exist in continuity with.
     
  15. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    I'm not bothered about necessary changes, but this is just a waste of effort.

    I fail to see how changing the entire meeting and history of Sonic, Tails and Robotnik is subtle. I fail to see what is gained from having Robotnik know where the Master Emerald is from the start, if anything it hampers the story. None of these changes have been beneficial thus far.

    I think it's been firmly established that I have a laundry list of issues with the story and continuity as they're handling it currently, and honestly I'm expecting it to get worse: this isn't a modernisation, it's a bastardisation, as we're getting worse plots instead that are now affecting other works like Sonic Prime, though that's not exactly a well written story itself it is setting a precedent.

    Still, I know I'm in the minority, I'm simply commenting on my distaste for the Lore Team's work.
     
  16. Kyro

    Kyro

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    Just woke up when I sent this, way more condescending than intended. What im trying to get at is that the origins of how sonic tails and robotnik met has literally never had any impact on how any of the games have played out, So in my opinion, changing those details as far as written "lore" doesn't matter as long as it doesn't contradict what is seen in the games. I don't think any of the revisions they've made has done so, and I feel the origins cutscenes for example only add context that we otherwise don't get in the games themselves, manuals and their inconsistencies be damned. I think this especially applies to the game gear games en mass.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2023
  17. Overlord

    Overlord

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    "Who cares about the fans who've been with the product for 30 years, this thing they just came up with now I think is fine"

    I don't agree with all of Blackhole's positions but that's literally how you sound.
     
  18. shilz

    shilz

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    IDK, I'd be happy to have *something* from Sonic Chronicles to matter, even if it was just the existence of Pow candy or some shit. It seems weird to be annoyed that your 30 years of brand loyalty doesn't pay off in any way when they're litterally trying to make it pay off by saying "your game KIND OF happened" because previously it just... didn't happen!
     
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  19. RDNexus

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    I think @Kyro's point is that a franchise that has run this old already and has TONS of contrivances on top of each other could do with a new coat of paint as long as it didn't screw up any of the essence of the franchise and its characters.

    If that's so, I can quite agree with it, or else we wouldn't have dozens of pages of discussion about how the continuity could work better and which games could/should be part of it or not.
     
  20. Plorpus

    Plorpus

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    So far most of the story changes (outside of Forces’ classic Sonic related dialogue, kinda) have been outside of the text, so to speak. The older games themselves don’t actually depict what’s in the manuals, so changing when Tails Adventures takes place, why Knuckles is fighting Sonic in Triple Trouble, whether or not Eggman knew about the Hidden Palace to begin with (which as far as I can read was never explicitly stated in any region), etc doesn’t actually change anything about the games themselves. The biggest changes I can think of otherwise are in regards to things like the number of chaos emeralds.
     
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