Sonic Superstars: A New 2D Sonic Game (Fall 2023)

I kind of like "Santiago" as a term. It sums up a complex idea, that (classic) Sonic and "Classic Sonic" are two very different entities, along with everything that entails, into a single word. I'll probably use "Santiago" going forward.

Re:Superstars
All else aside, I'm happy that it looks like Sonic Team finally got the physics down

 

I can't really agree he was not presented as threatening, and also I don't see how him being menacing would be diametrically opposite to him being goofy. This is a debate that has happened hundreds of times, but I still maintain he has always seemed pretty evil to me. The game challenge and the music have always been part of how the games would communicate that, because "his stages" -- in Sonic 1, for example -- would always make it seem like whatever hit me was on purpose and, as such, mechanically-oriented stages were an extension of his character.

Besides, he'd laugh when he hit you. That's pretty adversarial, if not menacing. The thematic presentation across the games does give him an appearance of evil, in that "Sonic's" places are pretty and pleasant, whereas "Eggman's" environments (like Sonic CD's bad futures) are cold, distant and full of killing intent, even towards his own creations.

Other than that, though, I agree the cuteness has always been there, and it's fine to play it up.

 

Yeah, people forget how cute Sonic was in the Ohshima's Sonic 1 manual illustrations. It didn't last, but neither did Yamaguchi's leaner Sonic from the Sonic 2 manual, all the Sonic art after that fell somewhere between the two. People will sometimes point to Sonic Jam and Sonic R's 2D illustrations as how Sonic looked immediately prior to Sonic Adventure, while ignoring the cutely proportioned Sonic renders in both games' end credits.

As far as the in-game graphics go, Sonic 3 had a much cuter Sonic than 1, 2 and CD.

A more direct comparison to the '90s games would be to the animal-themed bosses in the 8-bit Sonic 2, Sonic Chaos and Sonic Triple Trouble.



Superstars' mini-bosses are essentially giant Badniks, with giant animals inside them.

 

I could realistically believe that the Eggman who held Amy at gunpoint in SA2 is the same Eggman who build the Death Egg in Sonic 2 and 3. Not sure I could see Forces et al. Mike Pollock Eggman doing either of those things.

Actually, I remember thinking it was a bit weird that Eggman was so self satisfied about the Egg Carrier in SA1 when he already built the Death Egg before, but I guess Sonic continuity was always loose at best.

That's fair. I know the comparison I made wasn't the best one but you know, I even like the 8-bit bosses better than the current stuff. Maybe it's that they're a bit more mechanically detailed, or that most of them don't have giant goofy googly eyes to make them look as non-threatening as possible.

And it's not as if animal themed bosses can't still be cool/threatening and well designed. Mega Man X has always been pretty good at that

to me anyways, it's more that I don't like the art in general and the sanitized, chibi-fied characters are only part of that.
I don't really like Frontier's art style either with its unity demo asset flip lookin' kinda vibe, but I at least have to give it some credit for taking some artistic risks and doing something different

 

Joe after creating another Santiago user

 

The Egg Carrier is stylish as hell and can transform and stuff. It's fine that Eggman's proud of it but yeah it's hilarious how SA1 sweeps the Death Egg under the rug obviously just because ST didn't want to have to render it. They could've at least shown what's left of it floating in the skybox or something. HEY WAIT Superstars should've done that too yay I'm topical

 

Adding onto this Angel Island, ya know he just decided to burn an entire ecosystem just cause he heard sonic was there. He also throws literal bombs at you. IDK Sonic always had a eco friendly message with Eggman burning forests and flooding oceans with pollution so he can build his factories. Saying he's just goofy and not at all a threat sorta demeans that a little. I'm wondering weather the change in direction is perhaps intentional. SEGA is SEGA, maybe the environmentalist vibe would be seen as too hypocritical nowadays?

 

To be clear, I very much like the serious Eggman depictions in games such as Adventure. I love the Adventure games .

And before I get torn to shreds, it's possible I got a bit carried away

I do have more to say though on the topic. Will update in a bit. I still do think Eggman in the Classic games is more buffonish than threatening but yeah maybe I was a bit ott

 

Nah. I actually just want it to look more to my tastes. I want a tiny bit more edge like the classics had, that's all. I think that's what most people who are saying this mean. Strawmanning is bad.

 

I don't like how people who maybe just think that the modern version of Classic Sonic is slightly too cute are then automatically strawman'd into edgelords who want Sonic to be "super edgy and serious" like the Adventure games are(n't). Feels like you're assuming bad faith because of the bad faith you give the Adventure games and "Adventure fans". You can just read the posts right here in front of you and respond to them instead of just talking shit.

Damn this really is Unpopular Opinions 2 but if the mods are gonna pile onto it...

 

Can we all just agree that we want Classic Eggman to essentially be HIM from Powerpuff Girls, and themes of environmental degradation, already?

 

This just seems like an excuse to shit on Adventure fans. 90s Sonic was generally marketed as way more cool than cute in the west, which I imagine is the main culprit behind complaints about him being too cute. I remember these complaints happening in the Generations days, too. There's a bit of irony in a UK dude saying this, considering how infamous UK Sonic is for being rude

Another factor is the modelling. It gives Sonic a softer look which accentuates his cuteness. Compare this to Sonic Mania's pixel art, or the intro artwork @friedmetroid posted, which gives Sonic a sharper look, which makes people more likely to read him as "cool" than "cute". A subtle difference, yes, but those little differences can make or break a design for people. I'm not gonna say it's impossible to make Sonic look cool in 3D, but it does seem more difficult than in pixel art or something.

I think even Sega themselves were aware of this at one point. After SA1, Sonic got lankier proportions which made him looks less like a cute animal mascot and more like a cool teenager, which ended up getting added into future rereleases of SA1.

 

He should've stayed cute AND cool...

 

I'm way off topic and I apologize. But, regarding Sonic or other characters, Cute/Cool aren't diametrically opposed. They can exist at the same time (and should)

Exhibit A and B

 

That might've been the closest to perfect form for Sonic and pals.
An evolution of their classic appearances, but still close to them.

 

I think I'm not actually upset that they're moving the dial to cute in Superstars. It's just that they're still continuing to use the same damn models. Amy and Knuckles are "new". It wouldn't hurt to get an actual refresh instead of just a face lift on aging models.

Also, the fact that we still haven't gotten some decent damn Multiplayer coverage. How are you going to make it the main gimmick of the game and then refuse to show it off? What the hell.

 

We went from Sonic getting a slight redesign in every game from Sonic 1 - 2 - 3 (pre-internet, I thought it was weird that he didn't get a unique sprite in CD) to the same models getting asset flipped ad infinitum. That's all I want from a new Sonic game, some actual creative spark and show of effort. Sonic and the Fallen Star wasn't perfect but it's a great example of pushing the boundaries of Sonic's art without losing the essence.

 

I guess with sprite work you'd need to make entirely new sprites for new gimmicks and things. Not everything is going to be that transferable. Where as with a model it's easier to just slap new animations on and call it a day.