Sonic Superstars: A New 2D Sonic Game (Fall 2023)

I already said that:

And even in the quotes you cited, Iizuka still said that they referenced Mania along with the other 2D Classic games, which is also something I made mention of:

While the developers themselves do consider these aspects to be crucial enough to call the game "Mania 2", my point was about public perception:

It's absolutely the truth that people do not think being original excludes a game from being "Mania 2". Ask anyone before Superstars was announced what they think "Mania 2" would be and it would absolutely include new and original levels. Yet some of the same people wouldn't consider Superstars "Mania 2". Is it because Bridge Island isn't a reused theme? No, it's because it's not sprite-based.

How a developer choose to title their games is arbitrary. As in, there is no objective reason to not call Superstars "Mania 2". Mega Man 11 is different and more original than Mega Man 9 and 10 the same way Superstars is to Mania, but it's still "Mega Man 11", not "Mega Man: The Gear System" or whatever.

Public perception is also arbitrary: people refuse to accept Sonic '06 as "Sonic Adventure 3", despite it being blatantly an Sonic Adventure title; at the same time, people call Mania or Superstars "the real Sonic 4" despite there already being a literal Sonic 4.

It's not a "useless thought experience". Thinking about what makes a game a sequel or not or why they are titled the way they are is fun, even if you disagree.

My point was that much like how Superstars is only "Not Mania 2" on what is largely just art style, people consider Super Mario Bros. Wonder to be not NSMB, despite it having the same core gameplay and apparent design (though we have yet to see how different it is).

 

For all the crap I've given Speed Jungle, I must say I'm in love with the one-two combo of the frog badnik who slows you down and the... whatever-that-is badnik who will hit you from behind if you don't react quickly enough to being slowed down.

 

Haven't really noticed it much prior, but I'm surprised they kept the old system rule of losing all of your rings once you get hit. If they were willing to scrap lives in terms of making MD gameplay more modern/accessible to non-veteran/younger players; I would had also thrown in the Unleashed approach of only halving the rings lost when you get hit. Even Mania had the Combi-Ring ability that allowed you to regain large quantities of lost rings.

I'll add on to this praise and cite it as both a good example of different badniks used in coordination with each other to give the player problems (if not outright direct cooperation), and a nice example of badniks being more integrated with the level design/level mechanics (the frog I think has been used prior on the standard platforms, but its use in conjunction with the grindrails makes it less easier to ignore). I'm also going to personally give props to the dragonfly badnik disguised as a ring monitor at 3:20.

This type of enemy design stuff is the kind of the material I'd been wanting to see more in newer (MD) Sonic gameplay, where enemies are more conducive to the platforming and the designers are more willing to toy with player's expectations.

 

The melody's pretty busy, so it's not so easy to remember or hum. I'd say it's "OK."

 

Sorry, I was shared it on a discord and didn't know the source. Don't cone to me for news i guess lol

 

More footage, Knuckles in Bridge Island, followed by Amy in Speed Jungle


We get a good look at Knuckles' intro cutscene, and it's set at the Master Emerald Altar. Something about seeing that look bit of modern era lore in a Classic game really makes me smile.

There's also a good showing of Amy in a later Special Stage that looks quite difficult. I didn't realise the Emerald actually needed to be chased down ala Heroes and Mania. Looks like a lot of fun, and it's especially nice to see a Special Stage that's completely original. It's probably going to up there in first or second place next to Mania's own.

 

So I guess post Mania, Knuckles moves the emerald to the current emerald altar. That’s the new canon.

RIP Hidden Palace. Guess it wasn’t so hidden anymore lol

 

According to Origins, Death Egg crashed into Hidden Palace twice. There's literally a Death Egg sized hole in the ceiling, and it serves as the anchoring point for Little Planet in Mania. Hidden Palace is just a liability at this point.

 

Take a deep breath LMAO. A lot of people seem to like the music, given the reactions from playtesters. It's fair to not like it, but he's a professional and he makes professional audio that people enjoy. Your opinion is your opinion.


Also:
https://twitter.com/StartZ_HHK/status/1694666420255174928?t=IcMiiKYGB81RIEHe6LhnfA&s=19

Apparently that Unnamed track from the LEGO browser game is actually the level select theme for the demo, possibly for the full game. And Emerald Powers are cancellable, though idk what implications this has for the other powers we haven't seen.

 

This discussion comes along fairly often. It's always the same. Lol

Sonic might drop all of his rings at once, but that's followed by a lengthy period of invincibility frames and the fact that you can pick up the dropped rings (often without even meaning to), and there's every change that you'll be carrying a shield before getting hit too. Classic Sonic games are already incredibly forgiving by design. Changing the ring loss system in a Classic style game such as this just erodes any need to play well.

The 100 ring bonuses (park tokens in Colours Ultimate, coins in Origins, fruit coins in Superstars) now serve replacements for lives as incentives to play well. Mario games are far more punishing than Sonic in this regard, as taking damage in those actively makes you weaker. And if Mario is just fine being that "difficult", Sonic's got nothing to worry about.

 

In Sonic Origins we see Eggman and the remains of the Death Egg Robot fall into the Hidden Palace Zone, the Death Egg itself would have fallen into the lake that became Launch Base Zone.

The hole in the Lava Reef/Hidden Palace mountain was always there, if Sonic & Knuckles' title screen animation is to be believed.

 

Admittedly I was still thinking back to responses I read of casual players who felt Mania (and the older games) were (too) punishing in that mindset when I wrote that post, which I assume the lives removal was done as a response to. When you have modern platforming games having not only no lives, but also assists like the Super Guide in Nintendo's games that carry the player to the finish line, that's where the simultaneous use of no lives + Unleashed's ring mechanic comes in mind.

I also forgot to note that Unleashed's ring system removed the ability to re-collect dropped rings (making it function more akin to a health bar), so the ring system wouldn't make the game quite as forgiving previously outlined. Though Unleashed could be argued to have a overall higher difficulty ceiling to compensate for the new ring system--which for something like Superstars is likely counter-intuitive, beyond a potential New Game +/Hard Mode.

 

Has anyone else pointed out that they've buffed Knuckles' jump? He now jumps at the same height as everyone else. That's a significant gameplay change.

 

I can understand why that’d need to be done in a coop context, but I can’t say I like the idea…

 

Ehh I've never particularly loved the Knuckles low jump, messes with my muscle memory (side note: this makes the Metal Sonic race in CD absolutely brutal). I feel like running, jumping and rolling are best left consistent between each character. The Advance games did this decades ago and I didn't feel like they were any worse for wear.

 

I know right? Imagine if after the original Sonic the Hedgehog, they decided to make another 2D platformer that adds a two-player co-op mode with a completely new character and a brand new ability that forcibly injects speed going against the previous momentum-based philosophy. Imagine if they even made fundamental changes to the progression loop by reducing the number of acts per zone from three to two.

There's no way people would think of that as a sequel.

 

I understand why Knuckles has the same jump as everyone else in this game. It's necessary for co-op. But typically, I like what S3K did. The change was only minor, but it served to add just that tiny bit of extra difficulty because the game was made with it in mind. Bosses are sometimes just slightly out of reach, and it served a level design purpose in making some paths inaccessible to him. Coupled with his more difficult boss patterns and often more hazardous exclusive sections, it all came together to make his campaign a welcome alternative to Sonic's.

Mania didn't really bring it into the fray at all. The only purpose that Knuckles' weaker jump served in that game was to make the already-tedious Titanic Monarch 1 Boss even more of a drag.

 

Had you mentioned 3 compared to 2 I'd be like oh okay, what with the save system and characters having actual different abilities and that leading to a tangible difference between level design philosophies, but reducing the number of acts is a tad less radical a change than removing lives altogether, and the spindash and the super sonic are a tad less radical than each emerald granting a different ability (though not by much!)

That would've still not been the point though, because as I've pointed out, Mania's whole thing was to go out of its way to mimic a general abstraction of those games, of which sprites are a part, while Superstars' whole thing is not to do that. It's only Mania 2 insofar as it's a game in the same subseries that came after Mania, but it wasn't made with the same premises in mind at all. People behind the game said as much. So you can save your snark for something else.

I typed you a measured, long reaponse. Then I sent it, and my connection went out, so it didn't go through and now I'm not gonna do it again. I get what you're saying, but I can't agree because you're saying it isn't Mania 2 because it isn't sprite based; I'm saying it isn't sprite based because it isn't Mania 2. Naming and perception may be arbitrary, but they aren't random: the way they choose to name things seeks to influence the perception, and, like you said, sometimes it backfires. But I don't see a world in which a hypothetical Mania 2 has everything Superstars has on top of the 3D models. Good for Superstars.

 

Can we just agree that Superstars the true Sonic Adventure 3 and move on from this tired argument over semantics?