Guys though... imagine how crazy FBZ Act 2 is going to be. If GHZ Act 2 is any indication it is going to be AMAZING!
I really feel that graphic needs to be deleted and redone, it definitely doesn't fit the level design. First time I'm worried about Mania -- everything else has looked incredible so far, hopefully this is just one level out of many. This is my favorite level too, I'd prefer if it was outright taken out and redeveloped for DLC.
With fixing something like level art, I'd think it'd be better to outsource it. Team Mania and SEGA could still have final say on what is required or changed and it could also take the stress off the dev team to work on finishing & polishing the game. Another thing, everyone here is entitled to their opinions whether they be controversial or not. Maybe we can have 5 minutes of civility. On the other hand, this is Retro. Everyone go back to dick-waving.
^ Well isn't the art what PagodaWest is supposed to be responsible for? People seem to not realize that a lot of GHZ Act 2 is the original GHZ Act 3. However, it is hard to say how much FBZ Act 1 has changed. The 30 seconds they showed covered a lot of familiar ground, and it's only 30 seconds. And the unique parts were shown for only so long, so it's hard to tell how unique they really are (the Wing Fortress Zone turbines make an appearance though). But so far at least, FBZ Act 1 is the weakest thing we've seen in Mania, and we barely saw it. Thinking a bit more now, I can't think of any other zone from Sonic 1 to 3K that could possibly have such glaring tiling issues as this one does. But I'm hoping that they'll touch up the art, as it clashes so much with the otherwise excellent backgrounds (also the original stages don't have the problem of using pre-existing art, so they're much more consistent. The Classic zones do this half and half thing). But as some of the posts here have described, I really think Flying Battery is a zone that's best designed for 4:3. There's just something odd about this zone being in 16:9. It made a level that seemed very tight and claustrophobic to one that's very open and empty which is odd. As for the badnik trash graphics, I don't mind them too much outside of the fact that they clash with the foreground (which is more the foreground's fault IMO). Not sure why it's only Sonic 1 badniks though. What about Sonic 2 or 3's? Why can't it just be a shit ton of Bubbles from Sonic 4?
Purple things are from one of the new original zones. All other badnik are from zones we've already seen. Also Labyrinth zone badnik spotted - Labyrinth zone confirmed.
They really seem to be the reworked bottom of the SYz badnik as someone pointed out before (there's a green Caterpillar there that has never before appeared on a sonic game):
I noticed the drill-bot from Labyrinth appearing in the scrap pile. I'm hoping it either appears in another zone or is just an 'easter egg', because if they're really bringing Labyrinth back I'm going to riot. There's a green caterkiller in Mirage Saloon.
The new artwork for Sonic Mania looks absolutely gorgeous and really captures the look and style of the original classics. The art really looks like it was made back during the 90s and I absolutely love it! <3 I really wish that the Studiopolis poster as well as the box art was included in the Collector's Edition. It pains me that we won't get a physical release of the game because I would love to have physical copies of all of the new art. I also really love that Vinyl album that they showed off at the panel. If they release a Vinyl album I will definitely buy it. I also love that the record is a light blue color. I thought that was a nice touch. I feel like that should have been a part of the Collector's Edition as well. It kind of seems like a missed opportunity not including all of this nice stuff in the Collector's Edition. As for the Flying Battery reveal, I'm pretty happy about it. Flying Battery is a very fun level with great music and I have the utmost faith that Taxman and his team will do a fantastic job on it. I'm not really worried about the minor bugs that everyone is pointing out because those things are usually fixed near the end of development and I'm pretty sure that they are all well aware of the problems and will fix them in time. I'm not upset about the game being pushed back until summer either. More time to develop and enhance the game is more than welcome. I want this game to be the best that it can be. I will admit that the extra waiting time is going to be pure torture for me though because I'm impatient to begin with and the wait for this game and Sonic Forces has been severely painful. I think the wait for this game has been the most painful to me than the wait for any other Sonic game has been. I think it's partially due to the marketing strategy that Sega has been doing lately which is showing next to nothing and showing little things very far and in-between whereas waiting for other Sonic games in the past wasn't as painful because they actually showed you a good amount of stuff to satisfy you during the wait. For example, I was super hyped for Sonic Generations when it was first announced but they showed off a lot of trailers and gameplay videos to get you by while you waited so waiting for it wasn't that bad. It's also painful waiting for this game because I love the classic games and I grew up with them just like most of everyone here has and this is something I've been wanting since the 90s. I love that they are doing 2D Sonic games as well as 3D ones so they can make everyone happy. I love both 2D and 3D Sonic games so I'm more than happy. It's just the wait for them hurts lol. I wish they could at least give us a Green Hill Demo or something to pacify us until the summer. I really want this game to do well because I want them to make more Sonic Mania styled games in the future. I'd love to see a Sonic Mania 2 in the future with all new content. I don't mind remixed stages and I think I can understand why they decided to include it in Mania aside from nostalgia. I feel like they want to try to introduce the new and younger generation of Sonic fans to the classics that we all know, love, and grew up with. We may have played and seen the old content millions of times but a lot of the younger kids nowadays may not have and Mania I feel is a good way to introduce the younger generation to the classic games and some of their most iconic and beloved stages from them as well as adding new content to please new and old fans alike. Going back to Flying Battery, I actually didn't notice any of the issues with the foreground nor did I ever notice it with the original version of the stage. I don't think it's really that bad though since almost nobody noticed it for the past 20 years lol. :P The badnik trash chute looks fine to me. I don't think it looks fan game-ish. I think it's pretty funny actually. I almost feel bad for the dead, broken badniks laying in it. I don't think that Flying Battery is the weakest looking stage shown off so far but I think it may have the least amount of work time put into it which is why it may seem that way. I also love the new art in the stage for the outside sections and the warped look going on for the interior. I also like that the electric shield can interact with the environment more and you can now walk on electrified sections of the stage. That reminds me of the Carnival Night Boss where you won't be harmed by the electric if you have an electric shield. I'm happy that they chose Flying Battery but I would have also liked to have seen Lava Reef and Death Egg be remade as well. Death Egg is actually one of my favorite Sonic and Knuckles stage but overall I'm happy with their choice. Now for the Sonic 3 level I really want them to pick either Hydrocity or Marble Garden. They are my two favorite stages from Sonic 3. Hydrocity is my most favorite and it's hands down one of the best classic Sonic water stages. I really want to see that stage be choosen. For Sonic 2 I'd like to see Mystic Cave be revisited as well as either Oil Ocean or Metropolis. I think Mystic Cave would be the best choice because it's vastly different in terms of visuals and theme compared to some of the other levels and would add some differentiation among level tropes and themes. For Sonic CD I want either Collision Chaos or Stardust Speedway. I think they are probably going to choose Stardust Speedway because it's the most iconic stage in Sonic CD because of the Sonic Vs Metal Sonic race but I'd also really love to see Collision Chaos be revisited because that's actually my favorite stage in Sonic CD. I think I'm the minority when it comes to that though lol. I'll be happy though with whatever stage they pick for Sonic CD though because I love that game and all of the stages in it. Also, I couldn't help but notice something interesting with the Sonic Mania box art and the Sonic Heroes box art... I'm not sure if this was intentional, inspired, or coincidental lol. I happened to look at the Sonic Heroes box art earlier today and I couldn't help but notice the similarities. The character's poses are similar, their expressions are similar, and they are all facing the same directions as well. Sonic is jumping up with the same leg up in the air, Tails is waving the same hand, and Knuckles is facing the same direction. They are both different from each other but I can make out some similarities which I find really funny and also interesting.
I'm talking about the original series. So the purple thing could be a recolor/rework of the SYz badnik.
I think it's just a new badnik that was not revealed yet due to being present in one of the new zones. Also thinking more of it the junk pit does look like little effort was put into drawing it. I mean heck, look how it was done in Megaman X The FBZ junk pit does look embarrassingly amateurish compared to this. PagodaWest, c'mon guys. I know you can do much better. And no, TimmiT, I guarantee you that it's not just work-in-progress stuff. It was drawn, accepted and will go straight into the final product unless someone on the dev team revisits it and decided to redo it completely.
I gotta say this, the Megaman X method looks so much cleaner, and so much less cluttered. I'd love if it was redrawn in that fashion. Conservation of detail is the key. Less is more. And right now, the FBZ trashpit tries to fit way too much in.
Haha :v: :v: oh man seeing this makes me realize how much Sonic has fallen from grace over the years. Modern Sonic makes me want to vomit here
Big fan of Flying Battery Zone from Sonic 3 & K, though I would have though that at this point the Flying Battery would be... less flying? We get some sense of that in the garbage chute, but it is for all intents and purposes still active. It kind of gets screwed up pretty bad by the end of the S&K version.
Two things. First, I replayed FBZ and yeah, I concede defeat, it's worse than what I remembered (though I've always found it a mess - a wonderful and fun mess with a song that I love). But I think the biggest difference that made most of us not notice these details when we played it when younger, at least I think that's what happened for me, has no relation to resolution, but it's something quite simple: CRT monitors. It disguised the details in a much bigger way, and because of the "blurred" effect that it caused on the edges of the image, it certainly attenuated this clipping effect so it wasn't too intense. But now that the game is played on computer screens or FullHD TVs, everything is different. But I think the Mania-guys could retouch the level subtly, in fact it's what I've been waiting for from the beginning and I was sure that they would do that. I didn't think they would make any huge change in design, but I was pretty sure we would have discrete adjustments, something to this effect: Mostly the same, to the point that the overwhelming majority of players would probably not even notice the difference (for being something even more subtle than in GHZ), but different enough to be more pleasing to the eye. Dunno, it doesn't sound like something absurdly laborious, only slight adjustments that the team could do in literally 1 or 2 days at most - and they certainly have an infinitely greater talent than mine.
Wow that is already so much better. Like if they can literally just do that I'd be happy... that and fix the transparency issues on those beam platforms that mostly appear on the outside of the ship. The bottom corners of the pieces are black and they should definitely be transparent (They were like that in Sonic & Knuckles as well though). Like it's ok when those platforms are inside, they'll blend more, but against a blue sky it looks bleh. Looking at those tiles from Sonic & Knuckles though... wtf were the devs doing when they made those?
Wow, okay. I never noticed that Flying Battery was so messy before. And I suppose I'm only ever going to notice it when I'm specifically looking. Those changes that you made are really good though. It's most likely the effect that they were originally going for, but they had palette limitations to contend with. It would be nice to see the foreground art touched up to look like that. Flying Battery is the least visually interesting of the stages we've seen so far. The art is still very 16bit looking, compared to Green Hill doesn't look nearly as "pixely".
Conserving space. S3K's willingness to recycle 8x8 tiles is largely what accounts for the leap in detail from Sonic 2- you get visual density and reduce repetition at the expense of clean seams with a more geometric appearance overall. When I was working on That Game with Chimpo and Stealth, I actually spent a great deal of time optimizing my tile counts specifically to achieve that blocky "fits but not quote" look. The rest of the team wasn't as enthused about it, but to me, that granular tiling is emblematic of the most ambitious games on the system and I wanted that authenticity. I love it, really. That doctored shot isn't doing much for me.
