That was precisely my plan, I don't want to overwhelm myself with all four games at once, and Sonic 1 would certainly be the simplest one to do. Hell, for the three new zones, I was simply going to edit the existing 16-bit exclusive zones into being the 8-bit exclusive ones, due to their extreme similarity to one another. The other zones wouldn't even need to be touched, besides layout. Well, I'd replace LZ's background due to being blue bricks in the 8-bit version, but besides that, no art in the shared levels would need to be modified. It's the later games (especially the last two) that community contribution would be needed. Yes, it is as long as it uses a form of SMPS. Dunno about Sonic 1, but I know Sonic 2 uses it, and the later 8-bit games likely do too, since they run on the same engine. ------------------------------- But it's no big deal, I think we should keep discussing the Chaotix remake idea. I think that the existing level layouts could be tweaked to a medium-ish extent (not outright replaced, they're not THAT bad), and the players could have the option to use the original layouts if they so choose. Also, it would be neat if there was an option to select whether the player wants Mighty and Charmy in the cast, or Sonic and Tails. (no point in having Tails without Sonic, no point in having Charmy and Tails in the same cast, since they're both flying characters) Controls would be modified to be given a S3K/S2 feel to them, rather than the sloppy and clunky Crackers-like controls. (again, just an option) With this, Knuckles would feel more like he did in S3K, and therefore play a lot better. The special stages could do with some enhancement. First and foremost, the view distance could definitely be increased. Secondly, textured polygons wouldn't be a bad idea (not too detailed, just give it something to not look totally flat-shaded). That, and the framerate could be a bit smoother with the better rendering hardware these days. Although I think it'd be nice to have a no Combi option, that should be an option that is only unlocked when you beat the game for the first time, since one of the main points of the game design was the combi system. Speaking of combi, the other (computer controlled) character should without a doubt be controlled with Tails-like AI from Sonic 2/3k, instead of the stupid delay-based AI like in the Sonic 2 beta. Although Taxman told me that the Retro engine is for private use only at the time, I wonder if he'd be willing to allow the use of it for a Chaotix remake, for whoever decided to do so? (I probably wouldn't want to bother, I'd rather focus on the 8-bit games)
The Sonic 3 2P stages. I had this idea that would be cool for Sega to do. Chance of them doing it? Highly unlikely. But here goes. Turn the Sonic 3 2P stages into full fleshed out zones. Make it a Wiiware/PSN etc game with Sonic 4 HDesc graphics, but with better physics closer to the originals. But the layouts would be designed like Sonic 2's 2P mode, so it is still a versus race. Have a extra boss act at the end of each zone, (if doing a single zone versus the boss would be a tiebreaker act) Didn't the rivals series have a system like that for boss battles? Whoever got the most hits in wins? Honestly I never played either game. But yeah. No CPU players at all. Strictly 2 human players splitscreen. And on the top of all that add two new zones "F" and "G" to make 7 zones total. Either way, it is just a big "what if" and even then SEGA would screw it up somehow, I just know it.
I've honestly been fantasizing about remaking all of the 8 bit games into 16 bit for a while now via rom hack. Some of the later 8 bit games such as Sonic Triple Trouble actually have decent level design if I remember too. On Chaotix, would it really be worth it? I don't think I've ever played it, but if it's anything like Sonic Crackers, I'm not sure it would be very enjoyable anyway.
I'd be glad if you're willing to help on such a project. Besides Techno Tower, it's not that much like Crackers. Least Crackers-like levels to me would have to be Amazing Arena (actually not that bad, in my opinion) and Marina Madness. Quick question, do all the boats float at the same height to each other in the Marina Madness levels? If so, I think we can confirm they were supposed to be at the height of the level's water height, if it was to have water.
Bubble and splash sprites are inside Chaotix's memory suggesting water was meant to be in the game. It would admitely be the best way to add a new innovation without altering the level designs too much (plus it was planned for the game in the first place). As for porting SMS music to the Genesis, I'm not sure, I know either way though, good renditions can be made on it's soundchip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_EtM25PH0s&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B95ULhykVo&feature=related I remember, StephenUK was toying with the idea recently. I don't know if it's still planned but he at least made some nifty screenshots that were placed somewhere here. Gave you a nice idea what the levels could look like in 16 bit.
Mind linking to those screenshots? Also, can anyone answer my question about marina madness? Do the boats in the level always stay at the same altitude as each other?
I once saw a screenshot someone posted in the General Project Screenshot/Video Thread that had a mountain background similar to the first level in Sonic 1 GG. Having that go to good use in a Sonic GG 16bit edition would be pretty epic. I forgot who made it but you might want to contact that person. Maybe it was StephenUK.
I'd help as much as time allotted. First thing to figure out would be the sprite ratio from 8 bit to 16 bit so the levels can stay intact. Edit: Perhaps a topic in Reverse Engineering should be started?
After doing a couple calculations, I've determined 1.5 by 1.25 to be good, if the wide pixel aspect ratio is taken into account. This is based on Sonic's sprites between the 8 bit and 16 bit versions, while taking the screen aspect ratio differences into account. Edit: I'd rather start a topic there when it's actually been started.
So, you essentially want them to complete the original STH 4? I'm all for it. I made a post suggesting this a while back on the official Sega forums and got ripped apart over it. Nasty PM's and everything. I think a "Sonic Chaotix" would be sweet.
Guys, let us not get ahead of ourselves here. Community projects are nice, but erch, Project Retro. Anyway, I'd like to see not so much a remake of the Game Gear Sonic games as a complete reinterpretation. Maybe join them all in one huge game, with Nack and Bridge Zone and whatnot. New art, new sprites, etc. It has the potential to be pretty amazing. I actually think SEGA of America should get a small team to work with Taxman, some artists, some musicians, making a team with the Retro Engine in center and focused on the downloadable market. Then they could grab one of the critics most fans are making- the total absence of playable characters outside Sonic- and produce games for Knuckles, Tails, Chaotix, Amy, all with relatively low costs and risk, what with it not being a fully-fledged physically released Hedgehog Engined game. Alternatively, please please please Tails' Adventures.
The combine ring and the shield both fulfill the same purpose, only the latter has some considerable grounding in the franchise and it isn't something you have to pointlessly chase after for its effect to kick in. Totally redundant. The game is easy enough without two shields! The grow powerup was so fucking toxic you could barely move without getting stuck somewhere, it was more of a hindrance than the shrink box. There are speed shoes in the game and jumping higher is never useful, so what's the point? The shrink is still pretty worthless- we've got enemies and spikes and stage-specific hazards, isn't that punishment enough for the player? Both were at least novel, so it's not like they're hurting the game, but it definitely isn't something I'd have wasted my time on. It was a matter of showing off the hardware's capabilities over cogent game design. You're twisted. The first phase is fine and I wasn't talking about that, but the final boss is a big hulking static prerendered sprite that hovered towards you very slowly trying to tickle you. And then it had that laser only Vector even had to duck to dodge. It was an intimidating figure with a neat arena- just one more thing with a lot of potential that totally went to waste- but it isn't anywhere near as sophisticated or challenging as any of the other final bosses. Even swinging ball Eggman was tougher. So, yeah, make it suck less. In fact, pretty much all of the bosses in this game were executed poorly aside from Speed Slider's. You actually have to sit and watch some of them before you can even figure out what they're supposed to be doing. They're all very cool, but if we're going to have 5 stages per zone (and I'd really, really advise against this, that's just way too fucking many, you'll have seen everything there is to interact with in 2), they really need to culminate in a fight that isn't going to take me 20 seconds to blow through. Tweaks for everyone! I really don't have a problem with it! People are retarded and can't even figure out how to use tension to catapult themselves, and then they wonder why the spindash is so weak. I had a lot of fun toying with it, but it made it pretty easy to break the game, and people just can't come to grips with something so unintuitive in a series known for the simplicity of its controls. Make it optional. Because 1) That would take about three times as much effort, and 2) It'd be a ginormous fucking waste anyway when hardly anyone has had a chance to experience the original, or even knows of its existence to begin with. It'd come off as something totally new and it would only take them about five months to complete, and that's being generous. EDIT: I really must stress that what I'm suggesting here really only amounts to tweaks, hardly a total revamp. The zones should remain true to their original motifs insofar as they can, but there definitely needs to be less of an emphasis on vertical ascension and half-loops everywhere. They might have to create a few new tiles and they'll definitely need to sprite and code 2-3 new gimmicks for each stage, but that's really all there is to it!
This is probably what they'd do to save time and development costs if they ever revisited the old Game Gear games, but why settle for one good experience when you can have five good full-blown games, each one with its own villiains, gameplay quirks and overall style?
I'm a huge fan of the 8-bit games, especially 2 and Triple Trouble, so this is all really exciting. II always seemed to move a bit more smoothly (albeit with somewhat bland worlds), but Chaos and TT were a lot faster - Genesizing them would bring them all to the same standard, make the loops a lot less hilariously awkward and give best of both worlds as it were. Would Sonic I's levels be too small for Genesis Sonic? Jungle 2 seems really long but that might just be its sheer vertical-ness.
Would be sweet for them to show some love for the old 8-bit titles. I like the idea of taking the most original (read: not like 16-bit games' levels) zones and fleshing them out further, and making some sort of "best of" game out of the 8-bit Sonics. Throw in Tails, Knuckles, Nack, etc. Totally down with it.
I'm really nitpicky myself, so I'd rather see the 8 bit games recreated extremely faithfully...After that, additions could be made if desired if you ask me. Also, just so we're clear, is everything thinking of making rom hacks to accomplish this and a possible Knuckles Chaotix Recreation? Since we don't have access to Taxman's engine and I doubt anyone would want to put the effort into coding anything as good as it, I'd say our best bet rom hacking. Plus, we've got some disassemblies now.
I'd like to see remakes of the main GG/MS Sonic games, but with enhancements besides graphics I.E. similar to what was done with the Sonic CD port. Some teaks to make certain boss battles better would be pretty sweet too. The resolution on the GG games was tiny as hell. Just base the resolution as if it were originally designed with the Genesis in mind. If I misinterpreted your post, my bad.
Easy to sympathise with the idea of faithfulness, but porting it is going to change the physics and change the difficulty. Sonic moves considerably differently in the first couple of 8-bit Sonics and somewhat differently in Chaos and TT. THe difficulty that besets, say Sonic II on the GG is completely obliterated by playing it full-screen on the SMS, ditto if it were on the Genesis. Hopefully nobody would suggest nerfing the physics to fit what the 8-bit could be... but if you don't, you're automatically changing the dynamics and the game. The TT levels are nice and big so they'd fit nicely, but the Sonic 1 levels are puny - check the maps. Green Hill 2 just seems so so so small. Also easy to say, hey, let's do all the games, but you've got to start somewhere, and a project like this was started before but abandoned (albeit in favour of an even cooler hack).
A remix of Chaotix should just use that sublime art an those funky tunes and throw the rest away. Search your feelings, you know this to be true. Now the facts are over, my opinions on that matter: it should play like Sonic 2. No elemental shield clutter, air speed cap present (to torture the speed-runners a bit. Hey, it's okay - they love it), and a good variety of play styles like Sonic 2 offers; as opposed to S3K having levels that uniformly throw at the player speedways and slow-ass platforming in every single level. Very staccato. I know some of y'all like that shit, but I don't. Make it play like Sonic 2. Oh yeah, and if the special stages don't rape the player's eyes, then they are done wrong. We're back to facts here with this one.
Pretty much the way to go is start out by making your hack yourself, then just keep asking for help with it as you need it. Say hey I need a contribution to my hack here or there. The ones who support your hack are the ones who are most likely to help, and the ones who want it done a different way are the ones who probably won't help you and go ahead and work on their own hacks with a different group of people. If you've got 2 different visions, work on the one that is yours and see who's is better in the end when the next hacking contest comes up. Hacking here doesn't seem like it's had as much drive as it used to and that's sad. Maybe because progress on big projects like Sonic Megamix and such are being kept hush hush. We're all older now than we were 4 years ago too and have to do other work in our lives we haven't had to do before, so we also don't have as much time. People coming up with new ideas here is great, and so is people bringing back old ideas with new twists. We have seen what Sega does to their return to 2D and it is still not Genesis. That's because Genesis is the one perfect platform for this series and there is still so much that can be done. I'd like to see Sega make games using their lesser known Sonic characters, but fans doing that would also be a great idea. One of these days I'm going to ask my band leader if I can open up my download of Triple Fang on his laptop and see how good that fangame of Nack really is. I haven't gotten to try it because I only have PCs.
