Hill Top Zone

One part of me says that the original intention for it was to be very geometric and symmetrical - straight up and down. But another part of me wants to make it look crazy and interesting. Bend in all sorts of weird directions... yet keep the basic shapes that make up the tree. Of course if I bend the trunk too much it won't look a lot like a pine tree... but I don't see why the branch spike things can't be more (don't know what word to use) "individualized"? They could stick up and out at various angles and give it more character and depth quite easily. The way they're all the same makes it look totally artificial. And yeah, flat.

 

I would just try out both things and get feedback on 'em.

I've an idea for the trunk that's been floating around in my head for awhile that I might draw up. It involves more rigid bark that protrudes out and is more geometric.

 

Did the bush ever get its ears?

I personally don't think it clashes at all. Because the tree looks to be an object that was originally rendered 3D but the Sonic Team artists to begin with. Yeah there are problems with it that I didn't really bother fixing because it wouldn't be accepted anyway. As for the "angle" of it. There is no angle. It was rendered at a 2D orthographic view.
If you want me to re-render it I could turn shadows off, render the actual pieces of the tree seperately, and let photoshop users put it together and do the shadows by hand. Do you want me to do this?

I'm just going to pull up some of my old posts because I've argued my side of this 3D thing countless times.

 

Nowhere did we say that things will not look 3D, only that we will not be using 3D models. It is possible to draw images that are 2D, and in fact make them look 3D. We are aware that NSMB uses 3D, but that is not the direction we are taking. Nobody is freaking out about 3D, we just aren't taking that route. Your past arguments may have been valid when we were still trying to find a happy medium for a style, but that time is over. I understand your arguments, I know that 3D can work well with 2D, but that's not the case for this project. The final word is 3D renders will not be used.

As for drawing the animated rotated metal grate, that would be easy as pie using a 3D model as a base to get the angles, and hand drawing directly over it. That is the extent of mixing 3D with 2D that will be used.

 

I don't like to repeat myself, but I'm still wondering about this:

 

But then again, you guys still haven't finished (or started) the levels with less organic stuff that would benefit of 3D (the Emerald Hill corkscrew was an unnecessary hassle when trying to make it with vectors). Perhaps it was a bit too early to set the "no 3D ever" rule.

And it lost the "ears" in the process. I wouldn't say removing some truly original features is using the "artistic license" for good.

As "interesting" as the results might be, this is supposed to be Sonic 2, so I don't support the idea of making an alternate twisted universe. =P

Even if it's better than nothing at all being posted at these boards.

And then I don't think anything was done about it. =\

 

I've come to the conclusion that I'm really not going to learn how to draw with vector until I can at least get a decent program. A few times I've tried in the program I have, but it is just so difficult for a plethora of reasons. What I am going to do is focus on creating concept art in raster. If nothing else it will motivate others. Yesterday I began working on the vine glider thing, I hope to have it completed some time this week. If nothing else it should greatly improve over the previous concept art.

 

If I do anything with the little floaty bits it probably won't just be copy pasting some of the chunks from the main portion and sticking them out in the air. I would either create them specially to fit in the tile space that's left, which your picture does not, and integrate into the rest of the bush, or I think I'd create a small orbish thing for each side that more or less resembles the main body of the bush, but isn't quite the same. I tried something like this out earlier when I was working on it originally but it looked too overpowering, though I think it's because I literally just copied the bush body and scaled it down when I did.

I would also like to point out that the bush's sprite can be interpreted many different ways. One could make it with a rounded bottom and like angular top sides, since the sides with the ear bits are more angular than the bottoms (or you could just make each side a straight line and have no curves at all and have it be really angular all around which would actually be kinda neat). One could also make each side of it bulge out since the shading clearly depicts that, and you could argue that it needs to have smaller leaves on it than mine does.

 

You know, the trunks of the thinner trees in the background for Mushroom Hill zone, albeit too light, demonstrate how to have something look organic, and fit the style of Sonic. And those larger, darker trees could be used as inspiration with probably great results.

 

...Of course. I just posted a concept to illustrate my idea, like everybody should. =P

Let's think about the original design.

It was made of squares within and outside a main circular shape. On top of that, the NTSC artifacts made it look like a mixture of solid and pseudo-translucent, and gave the impression of the bush being some kind of holographic projection. That's why I originally thought of the idea of making it like a 3D globe with a green chequered texture.

Then the bits outside of it have the same squared shape as those inside, so interpreting them as "leaves" that for some reason are being projected outside the hologram would make the new design look as uniform as the original. Something that would make the original designer proud of having come up with it.

That's the mindset I think should be had when HD-izing. Observing the original design, trying to think what the designer had in mind when each part was made, and then trying to re-build that same idea with better tools, rather than "here's the sprite but my ideas are better than that".

 

I know they look like maggots at the moment, but I was thinking someone could do some sort of 'pine needles' effect on the tree to give it a bit more life:

And also give it a few more branches behind the current ones:

 

I personally don't think that the tree is supposed to look organic at all. Sonic 3 had a much different art style than 2. And that is why I prefer Sonic 2's art style. From 1 to 2 to 3 you see that it became progressively more organic.

I cleaned up some AA/shading issues in photoshop using blur. Which I didn't bother to do in the Jagged Mess version because its just an alternate version up for discussion.

Symmetrical Version:


Jagged Mess Version:


Separately rendered pieces untouched (weird shading issues and all):

Though the both look similar the bottom of the tree has slightly different angles, but to put the tree together you would just be duplicating the top pieces, and just attaching the bottom. And you would need to provide your own shadows.

 

MDS, PLEASE tone down the use of that [imo] awful glaringly bright green colour! It's no-way NEAR that bright a green on the original. I think it would make it a lot more appealing to the eyes is you toned the light down a bit.

Oh, and [back to my tree edit] I got sick of seeing the lack of proper shading on the top of that tree!
(I quickly used GIMP's burn tool to darken the sides of the tree there, which is why it doesn't look particularly neat)

 

Who dumped a box of green toothpicks on the tree?

I agree, and as soon as I can make a mockup, I will.

 

I think Maximus' example is the way to go. That tree doesn't look like it was ever intended to look organic or even textured (contrary to Mushroom Hill, because Sonic 3's style did have that kind of textured stuff).

 

I think you're partly mistaken my seriously bad attempt at drawing pine needles on the tree as making one of those "texture maps" out of it; all I was suggesting is to make some actual *detail* on the surface of the tree - but not as a "texture" as such.

From how I see it, texturing something and adding detail to it are two different things; what I was suggesting was the latter one, not the former.

It's a little hard to explain when I don't have the knowledge or skill to show you what I mean, sorry.


A question I feel that needs asking, is how well will Maximus' tree translate into 3D? Once it's been re-2D-ized, will it look any different from the tree we have right now - apart from the colouring & shading maybe?

 

My attempt at color correcting to better match the sprite:


Just to edit: Looking at my tree for like 5 minutes after I posted I really fell it love with it. <3
Or maybe I'm just happy because there is artwork being posted on the forum.

 

I'm in agreement With this. I'm sure there wouldn't be any dispute of the organic look of the GHZ trees if they were being done in HD. Though I would like to see this in the correct colours MaximusDM. (LOL you just posted it).