Was Mushroom Hill meant to be a Knuckles Exclusive?

The same way that an entire island can float in the air via a giant, magical emerald.

 

A wizard did it and now he needs food badly.

 

I think it was intentionally part of the innocent charm the classic series had.

 

Yeah, because seriously? Can't breath under water, but space is just fine? Think back to classic cartoons, whenever anybody would go into space or go to the moon, they almost never need to don space suits or wear any protective gear, they just GO. Same general idea.

 

Plus lets not forget that Sonic does have a cutscene, it just wouldn't make sense if mushroom hill had started out that way with just Sonic & Knuckles. The little scene where Sonic sees Knuckles being mischevious. Not to mention, in act 2 in both games when playing as Sonic Knuckles is the one that sends Sonic onto his alternate path through Act 2.

 

I think you people are hilarious for trying to assign any meaning to "plot points" in the classic games. S3/S3&K was the earliest time they tried to even put any storyline at all into the actual games themselves.

Sit back and enjoy the old days without worrying about "omg, the background is different with Knuckles! That must mean something!"

The old days were just that, the old days. Back when storyline meant fuck all and gameplay was king. Sega needs to try going back to that formula, it worked when it mattered so why wouldn't it work now? Outside of fanboys being douches, of course.

 

Actually, I'm pretty sure the intent WAS to put Knux's story after Sonic's. It's not just fanboy conjecture; there's a fair amount of evidence pointing to it. It's minor, but pretty obviously deliberate.

 

I remember reading something that Naka said that he was never happy that S3 and S&K was two different games. He would have liked S3&K to of been the release but due to timescales it went the way it did.

I doubt SEGA would have ever of put S&K as just an addon that needed S3 to work, this would have lost them a lot of money. Therefore, the logical option is to have them as two different games. But this does give us the problem of a story line when it was planned to be one game and turned out to be two. You cant assume everyone has S3 to plug into their S&K.

Who says one story is meant to come before or after the other, maybe they are two completely different stories where your not meant to assume things based on what has happened when playing the other story line.

 

Don't forget that Mushroom Hill (Valley) was going to be in Sonic 3, but was later moved to S&K. But then again, Knuckles was supposed to be in Sonic 3 too.

 

Wow, didnt saw that before...Its a nice detail.

 

I really didn't believe you, and I had to go back and try it myself, but yeah, Knuckles can't see the ocean.

I always thought the different stories (playing as Sonic, playing as Knuckles) were alternate possibilities, where either it was Sonic that saved Angel Island, or it was Knuckles that saved Angel Island. And in Knuckles' story, Robotnik was wearing the egg-robo helmet to trick Knuckles.

I'm not sure if I buy the linearity of Sonic's Story, and then Knuckles' story, but it's interesting.

 

Well there is a timeline in Sonic 1. GHZ MGZ is done in the day, SYZ in the twilight, LZ is unknown (and it's out of place) since it's inside the ruins, SLZ is at night and FZ is unknown as well, but since the cutscene at the end takes Sonic back at the GHZ is day again, some could speculate that FZ is done at dawn, which is very symbolic. There's also the obvious curve of difficulty rising as you reach Eggman's base, which is obvious as you're getting closer and closer to his fortress, and therefore, it gets more guarded and dangerous. About stuff lying around that it's not that obvious and it's open to speculation, I've read once a deep interpretation of FZ Act 3. It's what the Labyrinth Zone would look like if Eggman continued poluting the land, grey stones instead of yellow, slimmy water instead of clear one, dead plants. Sure it's a palette change, and probably ST didn't think about it, yet it carries meaning and fits perfectly, like a warning to do your best before the final fight, or that will happen to South Island. The end cutscene is the epilogue of the adventure, the animals and the emeralds are saved and everyone is happy. Even out of speculation there's a simple story, told in very small details, yet it is there. So there is a storyline in Sonic 1, we can't say there isn't.

We could say the same for Sonic 2, but I don't trust 2 as having any deep meaning like Sonic 1.

 

Yes, same.

Sonic 3 = Sonic's story
Sonic and Knuckles = Knuckle's story

Sonic gets a cutscene in Sonic 3, but doesn't in S&K. Knuckles gets a cutscene in S&K but doesn't in Sonic 3. Knuckles starting out on Angel Island in S3&K was almost useless, just as Sonic starting out on Mushroom Hill Zone was almost useless, but Sonic starting out on Angel Island and Knuckles starting out Mushroom Hill fits perfectly into the games as separately-played individuals.

At some point in Sonic 3 & Knuckles I see how this draws out, from when Knuckles stole the Chaos Emeralds from Sonic, to his cutscene on Mushroom Hill Zone, as well as the alternate cutscene presented in the lock-on, as well as the cutscene of Robotnik stealing the Master Emerald.

For me Sonic 3 & Knuckles was like a compilation of two stories, giving ADDITIONAL parts of the story line that were not presented in the games being played separate.

 

Actually the earliest they threw plot point into there was Sky Chase Zone-Death Egg in Sonic 2. Mini cut scenes ahoy!

Anyway with the Angel Island theme I'm not sure if it should mean anything to the timeline. It may just be a palette change due to the distinct lack of blue in Knuckles.

Or it could mean it is supposed to take place before or after the Master Emerald is stolen. Who knows?... Or cares for that matter. First its old enough to be retconned without an eyelash bat anyway, second as was said the order of events isn't really important to the old games, except in one certain oldschool Sonic that happens to be my absolute favorite by far: Sonic CD. ^_^

 

I never thought that Sonic starting in S&K Mushroom Hill w/o explanation was a big deal, however I do think it's strange that the S&K MHZ cutscene for Knuckles wasn't imported to the Knuckles only portion of S3&K as well. That's my only complaint. I know that this is a video game and all, but I guess they couldn't get EVERY detail right....but the things that even 8 year olds neglected to notice was the very fact that the island is still floating in Knuckles' game (points to comparison picture) and even the freed ghosts in Sandopolis act 2.

 

Technically even Sonic 1 had a storyline, just nobody cared about it =P These days you can't make Tetris without giving a deep storyline about why you're dropping blocks and making lines with them, though...

 

No.... the earliest was in SBZ2 to SBZ3.

The first thing I noticed when playing s3&K was the sky was different in AIZ, and then in Sky Sanctuary Zone, I found out why.

Although here's something... In LBZ, even though the Death Egg is gone, (As playing as Knuckles) Knuckles ends up raising the water level to where it is when Sonic plays....

And the cutscene in MHZ in the S3&K IS there... it just a little different..... Eggrobo drops a bomb and Mushroom Hill Zone starts.

 

Wait until you get interrupted every five lines in order to be reminded how you're doing this in order to save your lost uncle, in pure Gameloft style. Then you will want Tetris not having a storyline.