What would you want to see in a 3D Sonic Game?

This is arguably my best control scheme so far. Everything spoiler tagged is still being adjusted, but everything that isn't spoilered out is perfect, for one reason: ALL OF THE FACE BUTTONS (X, O, [], /\) JUMP. Thing is, they all jump differently.

On the ground:
Left Analog Stick: Walk -> Run -> Sprint
X: Standard Jump
[]: Standard Jump
/\: High Jump (Jump height increases, lateral movement is hindered.)
O: Long Jump (Jump height is limited, lateral movement is faster.)
While moving, hold R1: Roll.
While standing, hold R1 and tap face button(s): Charge Spin Dash. Release R1 to Dash.

On the walls:
Left Analog Stick: Run, stay on wall (not running fast enough causes you to regain gravity).
X: Jump across to opposite wall.
[]: Jump across to opposite wall.
/\: Jump upwards and land on opposite wall. (Not recommended in wide passages)
O: Jump downwards and land on opposite wall. (Not recommended in wide passages)
Tap R1: Spin on walls. (Note that this will decrease your velocity)

In midair:
Left Analog Stick: Move in midair.
Tap R1: W-Kaiten / Insta-Shield / Air Slash / Whatever you want to call it
Hold X and R1: Home in on nearest target.*
Hold O and R1: Home in on target directly below.*
Hold /\ and R1: Home in on target directly ahead.*
Hold [] and R1: Home in on nearest wall.* (This will make Sonic run on walls, by the way.)

*Sonic moves towards target at normal mid-air control speed; no sudden acceleration or defying gravity.

 

Not even Armored Core has had a control scheme that cryptic.

 

NOTE: I realized that some of the button configurations were a bit contradictory. I will change the effects around for O and /\ in my explanation, so ignore my previous post.

Okay. Here's an explanation.

All of the face buttons have similar yet slightly varying effects, making them interchangeable except for expert mode play. The reason I have it set up like this instead of, say, giving each button a distinct function is to minimize the need for combos during gameplay. Pressing one button repeatedly in any situation will suffice. The challenge then, becomes not about pressing the buttons in the right order quickly, but simply a matter of timing.

Now, here's a more detailed look at just what the buttons do and how they are used.

X is just the standard, default jump. When jumping with X, Sonic will obtain his normal height and his normal forward velocity. When held in midair, Sonic will gravitate towards the closest enemy/bumper/target/non-harmful obstacle. X also lets him jump between walls in most passages.

[] has a slightly different function. For the most part, jumping with [] will have a similar effect as jumping with X. However, if there are any vertical surfaces in the vicinity for Sonic to run on, he'll gravitate towards those instead. Wall-Jumping with [] acts the same as Wall-Jumping with X, because the player should not need to use one button to cling to walls and another to jump between them. ([] = Surface)

O deviates still further from the standard jump. Jumping with O lets Sonic reach a higher apex by sacrificing forward movement. You can use this on downward slopes to get a high jump without going too far forward. In the air, using O will let Sonic hit objects directly below him more accurately, as he adjusts his X and Y coordinates to match that of his target as he plummets from direction Z. Again, this sacrifices forward momentum. Finally, when used on walls, Sonic sacrifices forward momentum to leap to a higher point on the opposite surface. (O = Bullseye)

/\ gives the most unusual effects. Jumps with /\ will have a low apex, but if Sonic's running when he jumps with /\, he'll leap forward with a surprising amount of velocity. This long jump is great for gaining speed quickly and getting over wide gaps. In the air, holding /\ will let Sonic gravitate towards the furthest reachable target ahead of him. If you have a chain of badniks in the air*, /\ will be your best friend in shaving seconds off your time. Wall-jumping with /\ also gives Sonic more forward momentum while reducing his wall-jumping range and height, making it great for speeding through narrow passages, but bad if you're in a wide passage and/or mere feet above a lava-y deathtrap. (/\ = forward)

R1 is associated with rolling. Tap R1 while running, Sonic will start rolling. Hold R1 while standing, and Sonic will get into position for a spin dash (which you charge by tapping any face button). Use it in midair, and Sonic will do the W-Kaiten / Air Slash / the move where the white slashes appear around him. With a shield in midair, he'll use the shield's powers. And when running on walls, holding R1 will make Sonic spin, allowing him to plow through Badniks without jumping between walls.

That's a breakdown of just how every button used in the game reacts in every situation in the game ever.

On a final note, it should be made clear that the game in which this control scheme would be used could be beaten using only the X button for jumping. However, to encourage the player to use the other buttons, levels should be designed such that using only the X button is an inefficient way of clearing any level, and that a lot of secret areas would not be available without using the specialized jumping functions. You would have to take full advantage of Sonic's abilities, and use precise commands to navigate through each individual situation, in order to come out with the best time and the full experience.

"Hedgehog cannot live on ordinary jumps alone."

*I just want to mention, I don't like the way Badniks are currently implemented in Sonic games, but it's entirely possible for normal, attacking Badniks to be arranged in a way that 'inadvertently' makes a pathway for Sonic... like having three Coconuts hanging from palm trees, or a bunch of Rexxons in a lake of lava.

 

To those of you listing control schemes: try to think outside the PlayStation, please.

I'm surprised our local trolls haven't said this yet... CREATE-A-MOBIAN MODE! *pwnbliterated*

 

I dunno, a mode where I could customize a character's outfit anywhere from "naked and barefoot" (or in a swimsuit for the girls) to "not one inch of fur is even VISIBLE you're wearing that many layers of clothing" would be amusing for all of a couple of hours.

Would it be a popular feature? Depends on the crowd. I know places like here and The GHZ would decry it as the next worst thing, and not without reason. Places like Sonic Stadium would probably eat it up, and I can't say as I'd blame them either. I'd probably not mind it (especially if the costumes are rather goofy), and if I had to give a definitive "would I like it or not", I probably would... although I'd hardly consider such a feature make-or-break worthy.

Making a character from scratch, though? Screw that. Dressing up the existing characters is okay, but I don't want to make my own fancharacter and play as him in-game. If I did, I'd make a fangame for it.

What I would consider make-or-break worthy would be the basic gameplay mechanics, which need to go back to their momentum-based halcyon days where you EARNED your speed through repeated playing and inventive gimmicks, and it'd remain a fun platformer with tons of hidden rooms and secrets if you decided to slow down, observe your surroundings, and then use your speed in inventive ways to reach areas you couldn't otherwise reach (eg: GHZ2, the 1Up on top of the loop, which you can access either via red spring, if you wanna be cheap, or by jumping across the gap when you have speed shoes). Since this apparently isn't a "how to fix Sonic" thread (God knows we've had enough of those), I'll leave it at that. That's all I really want. A fun platformer with sprawling levels that MAY be linear but have enough variation, alternate paths and secrets to feel like they aren't.

 

I've got an idea for a control scheme

Left stick - Move sonic
Right stick - Move camera
A button - Jump
X/B/whatever button - Spin dash

Oh look it works and I didn't even have to spend 3 paragraphs explaining it!

Seriously this is a Sonic game, not like steel batallion or some shit

 

THANK YOU. Seriously, anything else you need to do to get from place to place should be manageable by manipulating Sonic's momentum in the game.

 

Quick Step and Drift from Unleashed are welcome additions to the basic control. They don't serve as new abilities but simply aid movement.

 

If you haven't noticed, that is exactly what I wrote, but with an Instashield/Air Slash/whatever you'd like to call it, and an open-world experience. Besides those things, it seems complicated, but is really incredibly simple. Just very versatile for player enjoyment. Simple, but you can make it as you want.

..Unless if you're talking to RSS, then I understand. Sorry to say, RSS, but that is unnessecarily complicated.

 

Doesn't let you do nearly as much though.

And my control scheme is simple. It's impossible to explain succinctly in words, like every single one of my ideas, but if I had some way I could demonstrate it visually, you would all go "OHHH... wow, that's cool. I want that in my Sonic game."

Keep in mind, I'm a visual thinker, so I can imagine it playing perfectly in my head and being an incredibly intuitive system.

 

You can do everything except for the on demand wall running, which would probably be a pain to prevent from being a game breaker anyway.

 

I intended for it to come across like Create-A-Wrestler mode that's been in the WWE games since before the name-change. I agree that a fangame would be better for a just-to-play-as-them type deal.

 

Okay, here goes.



No homing attack, but Sonic slightly gravitates towards enemies, and while jumping the camera moves to a slightly more top-down view for easier aiming.

 

That's sort of close to what I'd like to see for a control scheme, but with these changes:
Instead of Square being a second jump button, make that the spindash, but keep the spin charge on R1. That and make crouch just be square at a standstill.
Also on the lack of homing attack, I would either put the homing attack back in, or have like a thok like in SRB2. (Move forward fast like in a homing attack, but there's no homing about it.)
That and a strafe ability on L2 and R2 would be nice.

 

Not really. Quick step segments in particular were overused in that game's day stages (and a major reason why I liken the game to Battletoads more than anything Sonic). Drift was just cumbersome and more slippery than Sonic's normal turning.

 

Might I ask why there has to be a spindash button? Crouch + Jump.

Also, if you've ever played an FPS you'd know that the buttons on the right side of the controller are kindof difficult to use while you are steering the camera with the right analog stick. In order to pull off a dual analog control like that for a platformer the jump button would need to be one of the triggers, which actually would work out rather nicely. (You could say R3\L3 too but in application the R3/L3 buttons don't really work well when the stick is pointing in a direction)

I don't think giving the player control of the camera is going to be the fix that makes sonic games any better though. What we need is a more intelligent camera that can adapt when not on rails.

One of my ideas for a more effective control scheme back when I was coming up with one for a game project (half of these concepts, such as drifting and the strafing, were things they eventually tried with Unleashed, and imo worked) was to have a targeting system, that, when locked on to an enemy or object would allow you to strafe around and jump on that object in two dimensions, which would allow you to avoid the depth perception problem that caused them to invent the homing attack in the first place. To further help alleviate the problem the engine can prevent you from overshooting your target. As to whether or not the effect would be satisfying or not, it really depends on animations, the way to camera behaves around it, and how quickly you can execute this system while maintaining accuracy.

Besides that I definitely think the reliance on real physics needs to be reintroduced in a way that doesn't damper the speed or completely destroy the control, possibly with an implementation similar to skateboarding games like Tony Hawk. Having these real physics would make dual analog control a nightmare, as you will constantly be struggling to keep control of the camera.

 

If I didn't make it clear before, I hated it.

 

Alright, I'm sure you've wanted to hear me say this for a long time now:

I was wrong. My control scheme still sucks.

Go ahead, revel in that statement for a while. Except your feedback has nothing to do with this. I realized I could make it better on my own accord. And this time, I'd prefer that people actually read through everything. Not only do people not seem to realize that I'm listing the same buttons for different states, but everyone seems to miss the crucial point that most of the buttons are not mandatory for surviving a level. In fact, they're more like crutches than anything else. (Though I'll address that point soon.)

And I'm really disappointed that you all hardly combine buttons to create different moves, and waste precious real estate on functions that could easily overlap with others. Honestly, I think I'm the only one trying here, and the rest of you are just making super-simple controls to spite me, regardless of how non-functional they are.

But enough of that.

Before I even begin to talk about actual buttons on a controller, I'm going to talk about the one thing that's currently defining all of my control schemes: targeting. You see, IT IS NOT ENOUGH TO HAVE SONIC BOOST OR EVEN GRAVITATE GENTLY TOWARDS THE NEAREST ENEMY. You need to be able to choose your targets to take the fastest path, and you need to do this quickly. Because of the fast-paced nature of Sonic games, entering a target mode and/or scrolling through available targets is not an option.

So how do you get around this? Easy: just give multiple buttons homing functionality, and give each button a different set of criteria for picking out a target. Need to hit the closest enemy? Press the A button. The farthest reachable enemy? Press the B button. But what if you don't want to hit any enemies at all, and instead want to run on a wall or grab onto an edge? Then you use the Y button. And for a while, this actually seemed to be a good way to add more control to a fast-paced game like Sonic.

However, there is one thing I realized just recently: while having a button dedicated to targeting an enemy in a particular position from you makes attacking efficient and convenient, the problem is that setting up buttons this way is really almost as much of a cop-out as the current homing attack. Sure, he moves at normal midair speed towards his target in this control scheme, but the only difference in how you attack is that instead of tapping a button to hit an enemy, you hold it down long enough to reach said enemy. And that's still just as easy.

So, to compromise between this and the other extreme (having no target assistance whatsoever), gravitation toward enemies should only kick in when Sonic gets within a certain distance, say, 5 feet. Not enough range to be automatic in most cases, but enough to still be helpful. And rather than letting the buttons act as substitutes for moving around with the analog stick, just let them control whether or not Sonic stops to hit a particular enemy in the vicinity.

Using a single jump button, you could specify your targets by doing the following:

Target nearest enemy: Just hold the button.
Target enemy further away: Release button, move towards target until it's the closest enemy, then hold the button.
Target enemy below: Release button, move over your target, drop until nearing its level, then hold the button.
Target wall: Don't press the button, move towards the wall until you collide with it, start running on it.

This all should seem incredibly obvious.

However, this opens a whole new can of worms. Now, I've introduced challenges of timing which may be too small to be feasible to most players. And what can be done in cases where two targets are close together? Before you say, "Just don't put targets close together," I want to make it clear, I wouldn't feel right rearranging levels to duck the problem. Not only is it a cheap way of getting around it, but the problem will inevitably rear its ugly head at some point. Not to mention, tailoring levels to make them relatively easy to traverse betrays the idea the Robotnik is actually trying to stop Sonic. If I had my way, levels would be wild and untamed (like the real, natural world) or nearly air-tight deathtraps (like any good villain's fortress). The only guiding light would be to take full advantage of every move in your arsenal, and employ every hedgehoggy instinct to always find a way out, no matter how tiny. And only a control scheme that could achieve this would be worthy of being implemented in a Sonic game.

But I digress.

So, for the time being, I have some new functions for the face buttons (midair only), which will replace the gaping void left by my meddling. And this should hopefully provide ways to avoid those near-perfect timing situations.

TL;DR

Hold X,O,[] in midair: Move towards closest target.

Hold X as you bounce off an enemy: Bounce off normally.
Hold O as you bounce off an enemy: Bounce high, but lose lateral momentum. (Using this continuously lets you bounce higher and higher.)
Hold /\ as you bounce off an enemy: Bounce far, but gain little height.
Hold [] as you bounce off an enemy: Slice through.

Just in case you're wondering why /\ doesn't home in on enemies: Since you're intentionally bouncing far, you're probably trying to pass over a swarm of enemies to save time. That's why when you bounce off using /\, the game will automatically set your next target for the furthest enemy you can hit in the direction you're bouncing. Holding /\, therefore, will not mess this up.

+ - This is all going to be an exercise in futility of course. It's not like you're really going to read this dissertation and actually consider my ideas.  

 

No offense, but I'm making a list of ideas that I think are stupid, and this is on it.

Making a control scheme needlessly complex does not mean it's going to be SO AWESOME, it just means there's more stupid bullshit for me to memorize. Remember in Sonic Heroes when Sonic was given a shit-ton of useless moves that were ALL ASSIGNED TO THE SAME BUTTON so if you tried to do the cyclone jump you'd start wall jumping or some stupid shit? It was frustrating as fuck!

The Sonic games are simple. One of the appeals of Sonic over Mario was that it was far easier for a newcomer to get a grip on the controls. Mario had like three actions in Mario World (dashing, jumping, twirling). Sonic had one, jumping. That is its universal accessibility and having to press the triangle button or square button as you bounce off an enemy or some dumb shit completely destroys that.