The Supreme Topic of 'Other' Knowledge.

don't want to necro a thread with this, but I came across this in my soundcloud feed recently. it is tagged "raggacore" (considered a subgenre of reggae) and "ragga jungle".

There is a very specific melodic element in there. I wonder if the "whistle" in Aquatic Ruin Zone is actually calling back to a specific reggae cliche that I was entirely unaware about.

 

Well, ARZ does have a very Caribbean sound. Not necessarily reggae, mind you, but I wouldn't be surprised if Nakamura looked at the genre for influence on the track.

 

You do know that the "ARZ whistle" is taken straight from a western OST by Ennio Morricone, right? I can't remember which one right now, though.

 

It was very clearly from some kind of sample library given its use in Back in Time (Sonic R) but I didn't realize that was the source for it -- which I suppose explains why the official soundtrack on youtube seems to have excised it.

 

what @nineko said. whenever I hear Aquatic Ruin, I think of the wild west for this very reason. it's also a very common musical trope.

@muteKi can you link the youtube video which edited it out?

 

I mean, the Amen Break is taken from soul music but no one would claim that any hip-hop or drum and bass song that uses it is magically soul music. The origin of a sample doesn't change the genre a track is in...for instance a track made with a syncopated beat pattern using steel drums and pan flutes and seemingly a motif that shows up in other aesthetically similar works isn't magically a "western" track or made for a "western" level because the flute is taken from a specific OST. It was mentioned that Back in Time samples it too, but I've yet to come across anyone on here claiming that it's made for a western level or has a "western flavor" because of it.

 

oh I'd say this is a different sound. Aquatic Ruin is way more Morricone/wild west. the Back in Time flute isn't referencing the same musical motif

im more shocked to discover that Sonic R had its soundtrack edited. and they removed one of the most beautiful iconic parts of it wtf

 

*slaps forehead* You know what, I got confused over which flute sample we were talking about. Misread Aquatic Ruin as Jungle Joyride...maybe because I associate Aquatic Ruin's BGM with the cut jungle level concept and after someone pointed out (can't recall who said it but I'm sure I could find it if I took the time) that it could be a reference to the Tarzan yell haven't been able to hear it as anything else

 

Man I was fucking confused as fuck in this conversation.

 

Lesson be learned, kids, always fetch a link of what you're talking about (for the wiki, of course)

 

seriously tho

why did they remove the flute from Back in Time? were any other tracks changed?
does anyone know more about this?

i feel betrayed

 

We had a thread on it nearly two years ago. tl;dr no one really knows, it might've been a earlier master that was used
https://forums.sonicretro.org/index...ng-in-final-soundtrack-release-sonic-r.41508/

 

thank you, i just put it on the wiki

 

Nobody here is arguing that ARZ is 'western' music: nineko is pointing out that the sample originated from a some random OST that has nothing to do with raggacore, which undermines the assertion that ARZ's music was influenced by raggacore, since the composer could have heard that sample without ever listening to a raggacore song.

 

Feels like we are doing the whistle a disservice here. It's not just any random sample from any random film. It's from one of the most popular spaghetti westerns of all time by one of the greatest film composers of all time.

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You don't have to be familiar with Ennio, TGTBATU, or the western film genre, but the whistle itself has been referenced in pop culture for years. Masato could have seen the film, or could have just heard it sampled elsewhere. I don't think it would be something as hyper specific as a reference to a music genre.

 

I have a physical copy of the soundtrack (1998) as well as the game itself (PC version), and can confirm there are no flutes on the OST version. If you, however, use the game disk to play music instead of the game, it plays the in-game version with the flutes.

Seems the change dates way back!

 

I just get inherently confrontational whenever the Morricone-ARZ connection is brought up, as so many people use it as "evidence" for the completely baseless "Aquatic Ruin's music was meant for Sand Shower" -theory.

 

Knowing how cyclical this argument is I can't imagine this'll stick as a counterpoint the next time it gets brought up, but I do want to mention, at least anecdotally, that the whistle could just be representative of a bird call. I say this as someone who owns and listens to a lot of (obscure) instrumental/natural music outside of the mainstream view. I have this song on a CD I own from 1994, and honestly, this isn't even all that rare of a trope when it comes to jungle/rainforest inspired tunes of the era.

About 23 seconds in:


I'm sure I have others that do this too, but I'd have to go through my CD library again. Not really trying to change anyone's mind so much as make sure further consideration is brought to the table before making a ruling. As an aside, I also have another song that samples the Tarzan yell directly, but that's not relevant to the bird call consideration.

 

If the intention was to use the whistle to simulate a bird call, sure I would buy that. But listening to the demo tape, I think it's very clear Masato was specifically using the Ennio Whistle to accomplish whatever his intentions were.