The Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Megathread

Inb4 epiphany

 

I actually hadn't seen the GameSpot interview, but what I heard after skipping through 15 minutes of irrelevancies is... exactly what you just said. I thought you were, you know, referring to something he actually described or demonstrated. And a brief note about momentum, but weren't they telling us how they "got" that months ago? I guess they didn't. And another trailer of the same Splash Hill stuff.

I want to be excited. I really do. It's not like I get off on cynicism. But throw me a fucking bone here. Remember the Brawl coverage? That's how you hype a game. This slow drip of pictures of badniks and offhand commentary would be less insulting if they didn't act like they were handing us manna from heaven every time they toss us scraps.

 

I've said this before on the SEGA boards, but if they had more to actually show us, the delay might not be as useful as we'd like. As it stands, they can't showcase any changes that haven't been made, and they don't necessarily have to have made any significant progress implementing them yet. I mean, what are they going to do, release a trailer that somehow demonstrates "Hey look, Sonic doesn't come to a dead stop in the air anymore!" without somehow making themselves look really silly to the Internet and gaming community at large? Heck, they may not even have finished doing that yet even if they intend it to be so.

I'm not going to say you're wrong about them doing a poor job of hyping stuff or that this particular thing shouldn't have been "hyped," though.

 

Its the only way they listen, aside from sales and you can't vote with sales accurately anyways, because the kiddies will buy everything. Hell, a delay would have saved so many sonic games. Sega needs to be encouraged to delay (sonic) things more often. Once they realize it won't have a detrimental effect to their sales they'll probably start pushing higher quality products.

 

I give up. I'm not interested in terrible excuses. Just show me something amazing. This is ridiculous. If the problem is that they don't have anything to show, well, whip something up! They have a direction in mind by this point, right? And the art's mostly completed. It's not like this whole delay thing caught them by surprise; it was their announcement. Do I have to teach them how to do their jobs, or what?

Here, I'll give you an action plan. Everyone keeps complaining about this mine cart level, right? So once they decide they're delaying, spend a week buckling down and fixing whatever physics issues it has, tape a developer speeding through it and making it look great (or just PLAYABLE would be A-OK), and show us the reinvention. That would shut everyone right up. No ambiguity at all. This isn't rocket science!

 

Demanding it now just comes off as childish. If you're going to criticize their PR execution, fine, but read your post again. You sound really demanding. And their ability to just "whip something up" kind of depends on how far along their improvements are in the first place, which probably doesn't give them a whole lot to work with at this point.

I'm not a programmer, but the general idea I get every time someone starts talking about game design is that shit takes time.

There are a few issues with that idea. One thing is, that stuff was only released via leaks in the first place, and that's something they probably want to avoid directly referencing in the first place. Second... we're not even sure that's in line with what they have planned for that Act, so it's kind of pointless to say that's such an obvious thing to do.

Addressing the mine cart in some form or other would certainly be something to think about, but that's not something I expect immediately, either, and there's a certain amount of wordplay and such they'd probably try to apply when dealing with things pertaining to leaks. (Notice that they mentioned aspects that people complained about based on leak footage in the GameSpot video, and yet totally avoided mentioning anything but "assets" they released "officially"--it'd be kind of bad for a gaming company to publicly mention that the entirety of their beta is somewhere on the Internet waiting to be downloaded and played half a year before official release, wouldn't it?)

...All of this being said, I hope they do have some interesting things to showcase or talk about over the course of coming months. A few tidbits to reassure people that they aren't just sitting on their butts with various fingers in various bodily orifices would be cool beans.

Voicing your support for the delay where the PR guys can see it and show it to their bosses is good enough for now, and is the appropriate level of support we should be showing. If/when the game comes out and we see the kinds of improvements we want implemented in the finished product, then a show of widespread unified cheering would be appropriate—I dunno, if Sonic 4 really wows you, buy the PR team something nice for Christmas and send the company bigwigs a card saying you hate them slightly less than you did in 2009, or something.

EDIT: I say this because I don't want to give SEGA the wrong idea. The news of the delay is exciting, but it's only something to really congratulate them on if the delay does its job in the end.

 

What other people said amongst the lolinternetzarguments. I'm all for delays if it really does make the final game better, but the PR on hyping a delay is grade a+ bullshit

 

Hyping a delay is high-calibre bullshit. As has been mentioned before.....many.....many times.

The thing is, they have nothing to show that hasn't already been seen [by us mainly].
I can see why they think this is exciting, because as far as I know, this is the first time SEGA have asked for fan feedback during the development of a game.
SEGA of Japan have been autocratic douche's and haven't allowed any game to be polished, if it exceeds the budget and/or timeframe. The fact that for once, they have allowed it, is news not only for us, but for the development team aswell. I'm willing to bet they were just as surprised as the rest of us, when the request went through.

Now, had they said last month, or a couple of months ago that they were delaying, then I'd think now would be a good time to show what improvements they have made, but seeing as they've just announced it, they probably haven't had much time to actually do anything...let alone show it.

I'm afraid we'll just have to be patient. If this works, then I'm hoping they maintain this kind of attitude for the development cycle of the 3D games.
I know there isn't going to be SMG2 rival, especially seeing as it got a 10 in many places, but I'd love to see all of those reveiwers eat their words about the questionable quality of Sonic games these days.....

But thats another topic for another day.

 

Maybe Sega should copy Mario in regards to 'beating an enemy the old fashioned way gets you a reward.' E.g. Beating an enemy by jumping on it rather than using the homing attack gives Sonic more score or a ring bonus.

 

Or make it so that the only way to get the Good Ending is to get all the Chaos Emeralds AND play through the whole game without using the Homing Attack.

 

The delay is kind of exciting news for me, because since we've already seen the whole game, it's going to be really interesting to see what they change. Who knows, if this happens for each episode, Sonic 4 may be the next Sonic 2, prototype-wise. Call it a stretch, but I do feel like it's been a while since we've seen any real major changes made before release in a Sonic game. Other than Sonic Unleashed's three or so beta areas and M&S's prototype characters, prototype information seems to have been really dry for years now. Anyway, it's better than a 5-seconds-of-gameplay trailer or a tree.

This feels like the most intelligent post I've seen from the opposing side so far, because instead of just "mrrmrr they're not gonna fix crap anyway", it actually gives a few valid reasons as to how and why, and for once it doesn't use Sonic 2006 (which is a COMPLETELY different entity with a completely different story behind why it was the way it was) as a crutch. Kudos, Aquaslash. Though all I have to say as a counterargument is:

We don't really know whether they'll actually address these issues or not yet. While it seems unlikely that they'd change all of these things, I'm confident that they can still patch up a few of the game's rougher areas and improve upon it somewhat. After all, those weren't the only complaints - many of them had to do with the level design, which seems to be the main focus on what they're delaying the game for. The mention of the exclusive iPhone stages kind of peaks my interest, because they said they would make use of the tilt control, so maybe they really are the gimmick acts.

We'll just have to wait and see what they change. With Sega knowing about the leaks, they might do quite an overhaul to some areas of the game.

I do hope the next trailer doesn't have that stupid tribal music in it though. Really Sega, this isn't the second coming of Christ you're announcing, it's a Sonic game.

EDIT: Actually, now that I think of some of what was said here (mainly the last two paragraphs) and then read this:

This may really be the best news we've heard yet. It feels like Sega is really listening and connecting with the community, and despite all the leaks and stuff, our message got through and they're working to create an enjoyable game for everyone. I feel like voices are really being heard with where this is going.

 

I really hope this means they'll improve the physics etc. If this is the case then the delay is the best thing that could have happened given the circumstances.

 

I am a programmer, and to me the way everyone is treating SEGA like they're timidly extending themselves and need encouragement to Do the Right Thing makes SEGA sound like children, and between that and SEGA's constant overhype, the whole circus comes off as mutually patronizing.

It's not like I'm talking speculatively here. Blizzard has been delaying Starcraft II repeatedly, incessantly; it's what they're best at - but since they keep the community up to speed on the things they need to do and intend to do, everyone takes it in stride. The community knows the game will genuinely be better for it. SEGA has a bit less leeway to be transparent since they're making a platformer rather than a competitive RTS, but that doesn't mean they have no leeway.

But at this point, I feel like I'm wasting words. All it comes down to for me is that there are very good reasons SEGA gets disproportionate levels of flak from its fans. For whatever reason, they don't seem able to identify those reasons and deal with them, and you seem strangely invested in making excuses for that from top to bottom. I could write increasingly long replies dealing with each point in turn, but that's missing the forest for the trees. You shouldn't HAVE to make excuses. This is not a healthy relationship. I have yet to see any Sonic 4 PR efforts that rise above the level of "embarrassing."

You know what would be fascinating even if they don't have gameplay to show? Put a Sonic 4 designer in front of a camera for 20 minutes and have him tell us his vision. How does he feel about the original Sonic games, and how is he going to put that feeling into the way he designs the first sequel to them in 15 years? Why is he excited to have extra development time to better refine his project? What sort of thing is he working on that he thinks we would enjoy? This is the kind of stuff that forms real insights and connections and appreciation, as opposed to painful "oh god we better show our appreciation so they don't go wrong again" efforts.

 

What significance does this have to my pointing out that you sound like a child loudly demanding cake when you talk about how they should have something amazing to show us? Maybe you just worded it in a less-than-spectacular way, but that really is the image I get when reading your previous post.

But to be honest I really don't care how, um, "patronizing" this whole circus somehow sounds. I dunno, maybe my mind's too dead-set on the game itself, but that's just how I feel.

Except that wouldn't really be any different than the Iizuka stuff we already have, would it?

 

If you consider it spoiled and entitled to expect to be impressed, I can only conclude that you have become accustomed to low expectations. To me, that is what you are supposed to expect from an entertainment company. The company shows me creations I want to have, and I pay them money in exchange for those creations, and both of us are happy.

edit: Also worth noting that I only came into this expecting to be impressed because SEGA told me that they would be impressing me. If they told me to go away and come back in five months and they'll have a game for me to buy, I could respect that; it wouldn't be ideal, but it would be better than what they're doing now. My complaint is that at present they're putting down a football and yanking it away when I try to kick it.

 

Did I say spoiled and entitled to expect to be impressed? No, I said, "Hey, you know, I read your post just now, and boy did it sound that way." Not to presume anything about what goes on in the old noodle, but it does.

And that had more to do with the right this instant attitude.

Believe what you want.

I understand that much, I just don't think it's worth hanging on to that disappointment for longer than necessary. And to be honest, I actually am impressed in a weird sort of way.

 

I'm not hanging on to disappointment. My posts here are because I find it rhetorically interesting to identify the issues SEGA faces and how they could be resolved, not because I seethe with emotional turmoil at how SEGA has offended me.

I simply go elsewhere for my amazing experiences now.

 

Can we get over this now?
The "HUGE!" News came and went. To some it was worthy, to others it was not. The importance andd significance of the delay, in relation to "HUGE!", is entirely subjective.
I think on some level the announcement of the big news was misinterpreted. I don't think was meant to be seen as news that would give us the long awaited information we wanted, it was actually intended to be more of a public service announcement or something along those lines.

To us, as fans, its bullshit to cover a delay with "HUGE NEWS!". However, to SEGA its important to save face against other companies and people. Like many have said before, SEGA couldn't have gone on Gamespot and said
"Our game was leaked in its entirity due to PartnerNETs inherant flaws. The Public thought it was good, but the fans thought it was utterly shit, so we are going to make it better"
That would ruin SEGA reputation as a publisher. It would put into question just how good SEGA are at keeping things under wraps, and Microsoft would probably have sued because SEGA blamed them for being retarded.

Also, SEGA have nothing new to show us. We have seen nearly everything we needed to see to get a good idea of how the game will pan out. Including the "secret" ending.
They just recently got the extention, so they probably done......bugger all at this stage. Expecting some "wow" is fine, but I'm sure you'll understand that they have nothing new to show us. They can't exactly wow us with something we've already seen, can they?

 

Well, I guess we're on a similar wavelength, then, when you boil it down. A good portion of the reason I sit here arguing the point on anything is because I'm just an argumentative berk (to put that same kind of thing in a more blunt and self-depreciating way).

 

Just found out about the delay. It's probably for the best at this point; anyone following this game is likely aware of what has happened, and Sega presumably don't feel entirely comfortable releasing a game that's basically been leaked in it's entirely, as well as one that many have deemed as insatisfactory.

Considering how long the delay is, hopefully Dimps can set about getting some changes done to it. If it turns out the physics have been tweaked, and the level layouts have been changed, then I'd probably be relatively happy with that. As for stuff like the "Classic Sonic" skin option, and improving the graphics; I don't care much for them. If they're put in, then all the better, but I think the game is graphically fine just as it is, and I've come to accept Modern Sonic as the permanent face of the character.