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The Ideal 3D Sonic Game?

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Afti, May 4, 2009.

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  1. Afti

    Afti

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    So, there's never been a 3D Sonic game which has been accepted by the community as a whole as a good Sonic game. SA1 and Unleashed are considered fairly good, for the most part, but not nearly as good as 2D Sonic.

    So, what would it take to make a 3D Sonic game that was true to the Genesis games with regards to physics and gameplay?

    My opinion:

    Take Unleashed's daytime stages. Strip out the Sonic Boost, and implement a proper, chargeable Spin Dash activated by pressing the jump button while crouching. Lower Sonic's acceleration, place a cap on the speed he can get to purely under his own power, tighten his turning and braking, and raise deceleration. In the air, give Sonic a jump cancel and more control of his direction and acceleration. Replace the slide with a roll.

    You now have your player physics. SU actually has momentum, to a degree; the levels just aren't designed so that Sonic can take advantage of it.

    For level design, start Sonic off in an open, explorable area. In this area, by, say, Wall Jumping between two buildings, you can reach a slightly more linear area. Similar to SU, there are branching paths, but they all funnel back into the main one fairly quickly. Now, there are many paths like this - say, three to six - accessible through the first open area. Some of them eventually go to a second open area; others will go to a third. Again, three to six of the linear areas are accessible through these. You will continue to alternate between the linear and explorable areas until you reach the final open area, which all of the various paths end in. In it, there is a puzzle or platforming challenge of some sort, followed by a short, final linear area leading to the goal. The hardest path to a linear area in the open area will typically take you to the open area farthest in the level, and will require you to use Sonic's physics to your advantage- say, rolling down a slope that has a small ramp at the end instead of running it to get to a higher path.

    The gameplay diagram below illustrates this level design and the countless multitude of different paths it would offer. I have often heard it said that, in the Genesis games, you could still find a path you've not taken before. This is the case in levels based on this principle, too.

    [​IMG]

    Understand that the open areas are the circles, while the linear paths between them are the lines, and my point is made.

    How do you feel the ideal 3D Sonic game would play?
     
  2. Herm the Germ

    Herm the Germ

    Hmm, not bad. Well done, doctor! Member
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    MIDI-to-SMPS-conversions, mostly. Takin' requests, too.
    Just like Sonic Adventure 2 - You get to play more than Sonic, it doesn't try to be like 2D-Sonic (which I personally never enjoyed as much as the 3D-titles for the most part), and each character or character-group has it's own, distinct playing-style, not just "run from point A to B". Oh, and it lacks Special Stages, too.

    But that just be MY opinion and many will prolly disagree.
     
  3. RedStripedShoes

    RedStripedShoes

    And I'm gone again. Member
  4. Lobotomy

    Lobotomy

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    I like your idea a ton, but it's still missing something.

    Special Stages and Super Sonic in game.
     
  5. Solid SOAP

    Solid SOAP

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    Sonic Unleashed day-levels with more platforming and interesting level design, perfect.
     
  6. Afti

    Afti

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    Trivial things compared to making a good basic level architecture.

    You can have a good Sonic game with good level design and no Super Sonic- look at Sonic 1, or, better yet, Sonic CD.

    You cannot magically make a bad level good by using Super Sonic.
     
  7. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    ^I find Metropolis Zone to be much more possible better with Super Sonic
    More in level gimmicks would be nice as well. That's what I loved about Sonic 3. There was always something in each level that made it unique from the one before it, and not just art.
     
  8. Chimpo

    Chimpo

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    So instead of streamlining the game, let's complicate it.

    Good job.
     
  9. Sonic's controls aren't the problem really, as most of the time they do their job. We may have problems with the games they're based around, but the controls aren't that bad. Sure, the EU SA2:B may have had a weird sticky Homing Attack, and in Unleashed we have a different Homing Attack button altogether, and that's weird since Homing Attack has shared a button with Jump since 1998 (earlier than that even, if you include Sonic 3D's Gold Shield). The B/O button may not be too suitable for drifting, but Sega compensated by letting you use the triggers instead.

    I would like to see the Spin-Dash make a return (well, rolling in general) though, and I like the idea of a Homing Attack from the ground (though I personally think this should be a skill Sonic can only use while rolling, so you more incentive to roll). And holding down the left stick to crouch, roll, and even stomp doesn't sound fun at all. Stomp works fine as the Brake button, and either bumper (or both, whatever) could be crouch and roll.

    What if the triggers were crouch/roll, and there was pressure sensitivity so like...Sonic would tighten more when you've got the trigger held down, so he rolls faster but doesn't have as much maneuverability, so you have to let up on the trigger to slow the roll down for turns, almost like a driving game really. Granted, you're still going to come out of your ball when you land after a ramp, or if you just can't keep momentum anymore. Perhaps more skilled players could keep their rolling constant by letting up almost all the way on the trigger and then pulling it back in, almost forcing Sonic forward slightly. It'd be kinda like keeping Cape Mario flying horizontally.
     
  10. test-object

    test-object

    By Torm, no! This is terrible! I... I had no idea Member
  11. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    Sliding in the modern games is essentially rolling without the physics associated with it or the cooler looking animation. With Unleashed's jumping animation that would have looked so cool to have a rolling animation.
     
  12. RedStripedShoes

    RedStripedShoes

    And I'm gone again. Member
    Complicate it? Why, whatever do you mean?

    Left Stick moves Sonic.
    Right Stick moves the camera.
    L3 crouches and spins.
    R3 (Push in Right Stick) centers the camera behind Sonic.

    X jumps and homes in on targets.
    O boosts and homes in on targets faster.
    [] brakes.
    /\ interacts and does special actions.

    It's so simple, a chimp could play it.
     
  13. Tenniru

    Tenniru

    Duty Now For The Future Oldbie
    Honestly, I'd be very happy if Sonic 2006 was finished. IMO, it was the pinnacle of 3D Sonic in terms of vast, branching, well-designed levels, adding in other characters without drowning out whoever your main hedgehog was, huge adventure stages, and the like. Sadly, they never actually finished the thing, so it controls like junk and the physics are a mess.

    I imagine 2k6, with the main levels having SA2-style polish, the Mach Speed zones having Unleashed controls, and Shadow playing like he did in his game. Maybe throw in a Chao Garden, and I think you'd have an amazing game.
     
  14. Shadow Hog

    Shadow Hog

    "I'm a superdog!" Member
    Well, for one, I want to see the boost DIAF. For another, you're adding a "brake" functionality where one already exists (it's called holding the analog stick in the other direction, it's worked for every other platformer since 1996). Also, you're using L3 and R3 for no adequately explored reason when the triggers would be infinitely easier (seriously, crouch-walking in console FPS games tends to be a bear when I have to hold the stick in the entire time). Also arbitrarily PS3, when I doubt most of us have that console (I know I don't).
     
  15. test-object

    test-object

    By Torm, no! This is terrible! I... I had no idea Member
    Sigg'd. Amusement factor of non-sarcasm is too high. :3
     
  16. Afti

    Afti

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    I don't see stripping out the bestiality anywhere. Or the awful level design which seems to equate pits with difficulty.

    '06 hasn't a single redeeming quality. It amazes me that people see potential in it.
     
  17. muteKi

    muteKi

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    Dude, the bestiality was the best part. I for one want to see a game where you can play as Big and have to do social missions like in Unleashed.

    In the end you and Louie Montaine end up getting together.
     
  18. RevFirst

    RevFirst

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    Oh god, I don't think Froggy would be too happy about that. :/
     
  19. Blue Blood

    Blue Blood

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    Elise can ditch Sonic and go with Froggy in latest of the storybook titles. You know, cause they're the ideal 3D Sonic games.
     
  20. Phos

    Phos

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    A context sensitive button? A brake button!? The fuck is this shit?

    In my day, you just pushed the stick in the opposite direction if you wanted to slow down. Context sensitive buttons are way too fiddly for a Sonic game, it'll cause more headaches, especially considering that Sonic used to just grab stuff when I passed it.

    Ok, here's your control scheme:

    Left stick: Move

    All shoulder buttons and triggers are dedicated camera control buttons. The camera will be mostly scripted, though, but set up to take into account what the player needs to see in order to play.

    R1: Birds eye veiw
    L1: center camera (you can switch these two)
    triggers: rotate camera

    BFB (bottom face button, ie, X on the PS3):jump
    RFB: crouch
    LFB: crouch
    TFB: Jump

    You can now spin dash and rev just like the old games.

    Movement is handled similar to Sonic Blitz, but with the addition of Adventure 1 style turning.

    Just Moving needs to be fun ON IT'S OWN. You NEED to be able to have fun for a minute or so even without a game built around the movement engine. If you don't, your movement engine sucks for a Sonic game.

    More to come.
     
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