Sonic: The Wrath of Nazo

I think it's well made, I just think that the Nazo thing is incredibly dumb. He fits right in with DeviantArt fan characters.

 

Every Sonic character fits right in with the fan characters. They're deliberately designed that way to encourage young fans into drawing them and thus keep their attention on the series.

 

Remember that Dark Sonic appears in Sonic X, and around this time SEGA were experimenting with various forms of Sonic, such as Darkspine Sonic. I think what they meant by 'alternative design' was 'another version' of Super form, as 'alternate design' implies perhaps that this was a scrapped idea in stead of Super Sonic, when actually the evidence points to it being a separate but similar entity.

 

Alternate design was more my wording, not SEGA's. I don't recall what the actual statement was.

I have to wonder what purpose this Nazo Super Sonic was for. Dark Super Sonic was the negative power, was Nazo Super Sonic supposed to be a sort of 'Perfect' Super Sonic in the same vein as Perfect Chaos?

 

So Naoto Ohshima intended to have lots of people online make recoloured versions of Sonic back when he designed him? Back when DeviantArt and the internet as we know it now wasn't a thing?

Making a character simplistic to draw =/= wanting people to make a shitton of shitty "original characters".

 

Well, Eggman's original design was simplistic so children would have an easy time drawing him actually. :v:

Anywho tl;dr you think the whole Nazo thing is dumb. Others don't. We get it.

 

You appear to have misread my post. I said they were designed to be simplistic to encourage young fans into drawing them. Last I checked, that wasn't saying people online making recolours. Some might be precisely that, but otherwise that does include kids whom are just doodling in class or trying to get their drawings into the comics.

I simply stated every official character fits in with the fan characters because of how they're simplistically designed. Two circles, stick-like arms and legs and animal traits, there you go.

 

To be fair, I read your post as saying that Sonic characters are designed to make people draw fan characters. It's all about the phrasing, dude :v:/

 

WELP

 

Look like this whole "Blurred Legality" argument is gone.
*Plink*

 

I can totally picture Ken Penders opening a Patreon now. :v:

 

I've brought this quote up before, but I would have far less problems with ChakraX's Patreon if it was focused on the thing he says you're funding rather than the supposed side project:

Like I kinda said earlier: that does feel dishonest to say the least considering that the rest of the page is about Wrath of Nazo. There's only a single sentence where he mentions any other projects he has, with him saying that he has original ideas for stuff but nothing that's ready to be shown, and that Nazo is a heavy undertaking. Then later on in the Rewards bit of the page he says most of his creative time will go into Nazo. Making it sound an awful lot like his original ideas are his side projects and that Wrath of Nazo is his main project.

Him saying a bald-faced lie isn't the only reason I'm bothered by this though. By selling the copyright infringing project rather than his original creations or himself as the creator, he makes it much easier for Sega to take that page down. He should really re-do the entire Patreon page if he doesn't want it to end up like Super Mario Bros Z. And also if he doesn't want to look like a scammer.

 

It's like he wants to invoke funding original content while placing Wrath of Nazo as showing what he is currently capable of. (you sort of can't pass off a high school flash animation project as something of your current ability.)
I haven't bothered to check the Patreon (maybe tomorrow when I don't have dial up :D) but does he list Eclipse Force?
Speaking of I assume that's where he got the prediction for Nazo (7 minutes in one year, x Nazo runtime 30, -school (I think)= 3 years.)
then again, work started last year.

 

Maybe actually check the Patreon before making a snarky reply. :v:

He mentions Eclipse Force, but as one of his past projects and in the Q&A section.

And showing Wrath of Nazo as what he's currently capable of isn't a problem. But seeing how he launched his Patreon along with the the teaser for that fanfilm, how the entire Patreon page is themed around it, how he is mainly answering questions about Wrath of Nazo, and how he is promising early access to Wrath of Nazo stuff to those who pay him money (despite him saying that you're not paying him to see early access Nazo stuff at the start of the page), I'd say he's doing a little more than that.

 

Yeah, the whole thing seems a bit sketchy. I'm also not particularly fond of the per-month model for something like this, since it means he gets paid the same regardless of productivity (until it influences people's pledges). Say what you want about certain other Newgrounds revivals, at least that guy only raked in the dosh when he put content out. :v:

( + - And yeah, I know there's a difference between a long-term drawn animation project and an episodic sprite-based animation series, but I'd still prefer his income depend a little more on work done rather than time spent.   )

 

Hey! Thanks for making a thread about this. I like to peer through the popular Sonic communities to see any kind of feedback, good and bad, on my Wrath of Nazo project. Thanks for what has been said so far! I want to clear up some things in regards to the Patreon (pardon any typos, I wrote this on my work break).

Use of Funds

Currently, I am getting $73 a month from Patreon. That is assuming people don't drop off. Many people, which I am fine with, just donate for one month because that's all they can or want to donate. The money does not go in to my account but a special PayPal I created that I pull from to pay for software or freelance assistance. I assure you, as of now the Patreon is not helping me pay Rent :P. People are concerned about the 2019 release window (which still might even be a stretch but we'll see), but getting help would speed up the process or simply make the movie better

Making Money Off Sonic

So I am not a law professional, so all I say could be wrong >_>, but I used specific wording in the Patreon to let people know where the money goes and what you are getting in exchange for. I stand by that I am not getting paid to make Wrath of Nazo. I am not handing out DVDs or early viewing of the film because I want it to be that people are paying to see my animation/artistic process. How do I go from thumbnail to full scene, what is my drawing style like, how I create some effects, what software I use, etc. I also offer tutorials for the higher rewards.

Yes, for the time being most if not all of this will revolve around Nazo--It's a pretty big project! But the reason I finally decided to avoid Kickstarter and Indiegogo (unlike some other fan creations) was to avoid people directly paying me for a product. Wrath of Nazo being completed is not contingent on me getting funding, but since people are curious about my artistic process, I allow them to learn if they would like to throw a few dollars my way.

I asked a few people if they would prefer a monthly or "upload basis" for my Patreon, so I chose the monthly model because of the duration of the project. That way people know exactly what they are getting. If I did per upload, I might upload 2 screenshots or videos one week, then 10 another, making their per-basis choice unsteady. If I was making episodic shorts that released every few months, I would absolutely do that. Super Mario Bros Z. did a "per upload" basis because the creator doesn't show too much of the process and because he uses sprites I believe he makes an episode every 6 months or so, maybe less? The Monthly model also allows people to say "hey I'll give you $5 then leave, best of luck".

Am I indirectly getting money off Wrath of Nazo through Patreon? Yes, essentially, regardless of what I upload, Sonic or Not, that is going to help me make this film. I would still be using those funds to pay for software and talent. But again I see it as work-in-progress animation insight and knowledge (I am sure my professors used Mickey Mouse in their lectures :P) In my opinion it is not as blunt as say, people who flat out sell unlicensed fan art at conventions (which I have no issue with). So if people can make profit from direct sales of copyrighted characters and generally avoid legal trouble in that regard, I like to think I am pretty koshure?

Also I think someone mentioned it being an issue that I used fan made music? If anything, I would think it would be better to use fan created music rather than ripping the official tracks straight in to he film...

SEGA Legal Issues

If SEGA steps in and stops my Patreon, so be it! Their decision. But the film would still be made. People who donated would not have to worry because they would have already gotten the content they paid for (the work in progress stuff).

But if they came after mine, they should go after all the other Sonic Fan Projects that crowdfunded money more directly:

The Live Action Sonic Fan Film got donations through PayPal, even had rewards and advertised at conventions and, according to them, SEGA knew about it.

The fan comic Not Enough Rings received $17,000 on Kickstarter to develop their webcomic in to a physical one to be shipped and shared with fans, among other reward merch.

Sonic Prolouge 2 raised a few hundred dollars on Indiegogo but fell short of their campaign and cancelled the project (but I think it was a 'flexible' campaign so they still kept the money? I may be wrong)

This also leaves out all non-Sonic fan films raising thousands of dollars on these websites and the YouTubers that make a living doing Let's Plays

I actually was in talks with SEGA when I was considering Indiegogo but was tossed around a lot and eventually forgotten. As others have said, SEGA for the *most* part, when it comes to fan created videos (not games), they seem to turn the other way, even for relatively small monetizations.


So tl;dr, in the legal sense it is gray, I am approaching it with specific language that let's users know what they are getting, otherwise I would have done Indiegogo. This is not my full time job, just something to help create something awesome for the Sonic community and I work hard at it. If SEGA shuts the Patreon, it is not the end of the world, Nazo is still being made (I am having a blast so far haha). I would rather people dislike the film for it's content than be irritated by small financial support, especially considering larger projects have done much more direct forms of funding.



Also P.S. does Ruby really know about my film? :D

 

You still haven't really fixed the main problem I have with this: the Patreon page having such a big focus on Wrath of Nazo as if it's for the production of that. Again: the stuff that people are paying you for should be the main focus of it, not the big project that'll eventually be released three years from now people supposedly aren't paying for.

Seeing the work process of how you do animation actually sounds really interesting, but this is barely reflected at all on Patreon. It focuses far more on informing people on what Wrath of Nazo will be than it does on what kind of production stuff they'll see. The effort you put into making a thousand word post (!!!) clarifying things should have gone into changing your Patreon page to reflect what people are actually paying for.

Also, fanmade or not, using stuff other people made without permission to use it to advertise your Patreon is shitty.

 

Ah I see. Perhaps farther in to production I will upload sample screen shots and test animations for NON-Patrons to see as a taste for what they are getting, but I feel like I am pretty clear in the rewards sections exactly what you get with your donation. But I make it clear that Wrath of Nazo is my main side project (by 'side' I mean outside my day job haha). I liked the idea of the Sonic themed icons and stuff, tried to stay on brand but I will definitely have to swap those out when Nazo is no longer the focus.

I am glad you like the idea of showing the production/animation process! Again I think I make that very clear in the Patreon and my LOADS OF TEXT here was to cover all the concerns I saw in this thread. I knew before I even emailed SEGA that some Sonic fans were going to be turned off by any sort of financial support, regardless of the case (I ran a poll and about 3% of 2000 responders said not to fund it), and I am content with that, but I wanted to minimize 'bad press' and I felt Patreon was the way as opposed to Kickstarter or Indiegogo.

And where we just simply disagree, I feel like fanmade stuff in this regard isn't as scummy as you feel it is. The Sonic Live Action Fan Film had a Paypal button right on their homepage and mentioned donations at public locations and articles, and I recall the creators saying SEGA was aware of their project. I do not recall seeing people getting bothered by that fact. Personally, I wanted to be a bit more indirect in my case.

But, I hope you and others still watch the final film despite our disagreements on Patreon/crowdfunding!

 

With the fanmade thing I was more referring to this bit:

I mean, even if you don't get into trouble for using it, it's shitty to use stuff other people made to promote your Patreon if they didn't give you permission to do that.

Regardless of that, I hope production on the short goes well cause you clearly are putting a lot of effort into it. The teaser is really nicely animated and the voice actors do a pretty decent job mimicking the characters' voices.